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Discussion: Simulation / Armed Assault - Land Nav help - Guys I made the below to help us become more effective. Be advised my line
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11-11-2009, 12:37 PM #1
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Land Nav help
Guys I made the below to help us become more effective. Be advised my line arn't accuret and numbers may vary, but if your going to make an overlay or do this just take the time to measure, but you get the idea from this. Also I know my spelling is off, but I'm hungover as anything so shhhhhhh.
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11-11-2009, 01:14 PM #2
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Re: Land Nav help
I didn't think of doing this, good idea =)
Just hope everyone knows what you mean, because people have gotten used to the 6 digit references.
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11-11-2009, 03:22 PM #3
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Re: Land Nav help
I think that most people will understand when they get an 8-digit reference, or will figure it out soon enough. And indeed it's a lovely system since the 6-digit one is very inaccurate for other than 'a general area'. ^^
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11-11-2009, 03:47 PM #4
![Sc[ + ]pe's Avatar](http://www.tacticalgamer.com/customavatars/avatar21093_1.gif "Sc[ + ]pe's Avatar")
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Re: Land Nav help
My problem with the 8-digit grid reference is that it combines general data with specific data in a very non-contextual way -- ie., it becomes difficult for the average player to immediately distinguish which numbers are a higher priority to remember (in this case it is almost always the first three digits in a particular axis' coordinates), and so it becomes very easy for a player to confuse "1234-5678" with "1243-5687"; additionally, if the communicade is broken up mid-transit, a coordinate of "1234-5678" could be broken into "124-568". The chance for error is unreasonably high during an 8-digit grid reference in an untrained and relatively relaxed scenario.
Instead, I prefer giving a general, then specific, grid coordinate via an object of reference everyone is familiar with -- the computer keypad. A coordinate of "1234-5678" is translated as "123-567 keypad 8.5". Although this system is less accurate than a traditional 8-figure designation (by about 13 meters at its longest point), it is A) much easier to recognize and evaluate, B) more familiar and much more easily distinguished in larger broadcasts and C) NOT easily mangled or confused in the grand scheme of things.
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11-11-2009, 04:08 PM #5
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Re: Land Nav help
or you could just type I am at 1625/1457 and be done with it, I know my guys are going to start using this, if anyone wants to learn this method, and get good at it I will design a Land Nav and basic Movements course for TGU. Just let me know we need to show interest for it to be made a class.
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11-11-2009, 05:39 PM #6
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Re: Land Nav help
Finding exact grid references isn't really needed in Arma, you can simply mark the desired position on the map and there is instant recognition (for better or for worse).
Though it would be neato to see an entire mission planned and executed without any marks on the map at all. A sense of accomplishment would follow from that heh.
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11-11-2009, 05:56 PM #7
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Re: Land Nav help
Agreed, beta. It'd be nice to limit the marking.
Actually a quite nice system would be as follows, imo:
1) Everyone can make and see markers in the briefing unless function is disabled by some init.sqf parameter.
2) Everyone can make personal markers only they can see (or if there's an option to view other people's maps, see them that way)
3) Markers can only be shared during a mission by people with GPS equipment or vehicles equipped with similar systems (like most modern tanks, AFVs and aircraft).
All other communication of location would have to be on a coordinate or relative-to-landmark basis.
If nothing else limit markers so that one can only mark in group unless a squad leader, in which case you can mark in Commander as well, and only those above squad-level in hierarchy of command could use Side or Global to mark in.
This last bit can of course be enforced by TG rules alone without need to mod things.
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11-11-2009, 06:35 PM #8
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Re: Land Nav help
You know how long it's been since I've done land nav lol. Other nite we used it for a mission (though I did my drill Sgt proud) I did'nt feel 1000% comftorble with it. Though the immersion ingame would 10 fold by limiting markers an using as in rw, though alot today is gps an computers ansatalites an an an u get the point. Though on the other hand in missions using arty an mortor support I think its needed an everyone should know the basics.
"It doesn't take a hero to order men into battle. It takes a hero to be one of those men who goes into battle."
"To show you what a difference retirement makes. Last year when I gave an order, 541,000 men and women jumped," he explained. "Now I can't even get the plumber to come over."
Norman Schwarzkopf
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11-11-2009, 06:47 PM #9
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Re: Land Nav help
LOL yeah Call911 I remember that mission....we got lost at first but in the end we really had it sorted.
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11-11-2009, 07:25 PM #10
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Re: Land Nav help
I agree. I prefer the keypad method too. If someone wants to send me 8 digit coords then I will understand them, but it in my opinion it introduces needless complexity without any real improvement in accuracy.
Originally Posted by Sc[ + ]pe
I would call in the black dot above as:
162:150 kp 9
If it was arty, he would be dead. If it was a heli pickup, he would be picked up.
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11-11-2009, 07:34 PM #11
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Re: Land Nav help
everyone makes good points but I must say our goal is to make things as real as possible, that is the whole goal of TG. So if we can teach a lesson that is easy to learn, because it is, if you can do math you can do land nav, then we should try to do it. Its just not realistic to me if your on the other side of town that you can mark something on my map. If the military had maps like that then I wouldn't have to learn Land Nav lol. Also only like 1/10 guys if not less gets a plugger, I think we should limit pluggers to the commanders, vehicles, and Squad leaders. And no one should have a map beside the FTL, SL commanders,ARTY and Pilots.
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11-11-2009, 07:35 PM #12
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Re: Land Nav help
Ive been doing fine just saying hes in 178-254 in the upper right hand corner. There really cant be any confusion unless you don't know your right from left.
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11-11-2009, 08:36 PM #13
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Re: Land Nav help
Perhaps this is tangenting a bit, but I personally don't interpret the TG Primer as saying that the goal is "to make things as real as possible", and it certainly isn't "the whole goal of TG" as far as I can tell. Citing the three key TG primer goals: Originally Posted by Boondocksaint
I think that from the Primer (and the yearly 'state of the union' addresses), the key thing to take away from it is that teamwork is the ultimate goal, and that is achieved through maturity and adherence to the rules that the various game admins have set down.1) Create an environment conducive for mature gamers to enjoy the games they play without the everyday interference from the less-than-mature gamers.
2) Create an environment where there was mutual respect for your fellow gamers and where all members would be working together to advance the enjoyment of their hobby.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine, regardless of the level of advantage, if any, it gives over the opposing team.
I don't interpret any of the above as saying that the end goal is "as real as possible", and I think it would be somewhat missing the point to make that a guiding part of your mindset. You could work point #3 to support being "more realistic", but even then, I think it makes it clear that teamwork and maturity are more important factors (which would contradict the 'that's the whole point of TG' bit). I also seem to recall that #3 was 'toned down' in the most recent state of the union-esque posts from the overall site admins.
Tangent, perhaps, but it seems appropriate. My personal opinion on this? Do it because it improves gameplay, makes it more fun, or something similar - not simply because "it's more realistic".
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11-11-2009, 10:03 PM #14
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Re: Land Nav help
That was the arctangent of all tangents.
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11-11-2009, 10:58 PM #15
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Re: Land Nav help
Why are you guys putting so much effort into shooting down his idea. He's not forcing you to use his tip or any of his advice.
The guys just offering some advice... Lighten up folks.
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