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Discussion: Simulation / Armed Assault - Recoil Realistic... Yes or No - I was told that it wasn't possible to change animations, even back in the ArmA
  1. #16


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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    I was told that it wasn't possible to change animations, even back in the ArmA 1 days, I have no expertise with this and not sure how we would go about fixing it.

    Hopefully ACE 2 will fix this so maybe wait? Don't want to spend energy if it will be fixed by those guys.



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  3. #17

    Inkompetent's Avatar

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    I don't have a clue if they've poked into animations or not.

    And it's a bit true and a bit untrue with the 'not able to change animations'. I don't think that one could change which animation is used for something. That's hardcoded. However you can alter or replace the specific animation.




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  5. #18

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Phew.. well at least the recoils don't require changes to animations, and were very easy to adjust. A kickass recoil for the 7.62x39 AKs took just five minutes, and now it is as it should be: You can't hit the side of the barn on full-auto

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  7. #19


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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Fincuan, did you just edit the recoil system?



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  9. #20

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Yeah I quickly poked with M4, M16 and AKM recoils. I have to take my words back just a bit though: Looks like the recoils the game uses while you're moving are completely different from those used while staying still. I'm now trying to find out how I change those used while moving. My AKM looks pretty stupid at the moment: Full auto is more accurate when moving than when staying still.

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  11. #21

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Significantly decreasing the head-bob levels in the options menu helped me a lot. I know that's not the same as recoil, but it is something that I played with turned on for over two weeks of having A2 before I noticed it in the menu and toned it down.

    As far as realism goes with recoil, the recoil of the weapon is only half the story. The other half is the amount of strength and experience the shooter has with that particular weapon. I'm just not a big enough guy to be able to really control a Desert Eagle enough to shoot it with any accuracy, but I can handle a .45 without any problems. Many smaller-framed people have a hard time with anything more powerful than a 9mm. The actual recoil of the weapon can be modeled correctly in a game, but the effect of an individual person using the weapon is a different story. The experience of the shooter can have a lot to do with it as well. Some people have a tendency to overcompensate for recoil and try to fight it too much.

    That's why I think some people will play the game a feel like it is fairly close to what it feels like when they shoot the real weapon, where as others will have a different opinion based on the same personal experience.

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  13. #22

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Being a good old pistol carrying 2nd Amendment loving American I have shot my fair share of weapons. I believe that the current accuracy model is flawed. Too much bounce when walking forward. I also think it totally wrong you can't fire when your sprinting.. yes, you can't hit much of anything.. but never the less you can do it in real life and its done sometimes.

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  15. #23

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Walking speed w/ ironsights in ArmA 2 does not equal the movement speeds one uses when firing at a walk when you're on the range.

    For the US Army military guys, imagine doing ready-ups and trying to hit something while walking 15 minute miles on the EIB 12 miler. That's how fast the walk speed in ArmA 2 is. Walking = ~15 minute miles, the jog = ~8 minute miles. We're moving a lot faster than we think we are in the game.

    For the time being, just pretend your guy is a shooter with really bad form. :P

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  17. #24


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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Well like i mentioned before with ACE 1, they managed to slow the walk will your weapon was up and you looking down the sights. It was a great change to see and hopefully the same change comes with ACE 2. I just don't know how they manage to miss those things but thankfully there are editors our there to fix this stuff.



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  19. #25



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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Speaking from experience here, the sight movement on the m4/m16 looks and feels about right. As far as for CCO (close combat optics) yes they move a heck of alot when you walk. thats because your eye is very close to the optic itself so any minute movement on your end translates into an huge move in the site appiture itself. The recoil however does seem a bit much. To illustrate my point i will revert to what my Drill Sergeants(DS) demonstrated at the range one day.

    DS take M16A-4 and loads mag
    Places buttstock on his chin
    Fire in burst on target.
    No damage to his chin
    DS then places M16A-4 between his legs
    We all gasp
    Fires a burst.
    Hits the target
    Doesn't even flinch.

    The m16/m4 kicks like a p-o-ed kitten. honestly. Other than that though. It feels about right.


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  21. #26

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Ours fired his off of his nose. This, however, is something that makes no difference in game. What does make a difference in game is this:
    Our shooters are shooting with flak jackets, walking incredibly fast, and muzzle climb is a pain.

    I'll address each one of these in turn:

    Flak jackets are slick, and do not provide a good place to put your weapon. They cover the shoulder pocket that you usually rest your stock on. When I say this is a mild annoyance, that's a gross understatement. Shooting with a flak jacket is an entirely different experience than shooting without one. Even with the mild kick of the M-16, the weapon tends to slide around, and using any sort of muscling causes it to slide off the shoulder, meaning you have to keep a "loose stance" this creates muzzle movement. Now the shooter doesn't actually have bad form. If you watch your muzzle, it actually does exactly what we're taught to do to control the muzzle in a "combat glide." He figure eights. This way, his muzzle is moving, but he knows where it's going.

    Movement speed is pretty high in ArmA. I won't address this very much, because Gill already broke down the numbers. I will say that he's moving about 25 percent faster than the average man would be in a combat glide. And for future reference, when I say combat glide, that's what we jarheads use in reference to the civillian "Walking while aiming."

    Muzzle climb: Muzzle climb is NOT equivalent in any way to recoil. Recoil is offset by total weight of the weapon and by stance. Muzzle climb is offset by weight on the front of the weapon, dispersion of gas, and stance. The M-16A2 has pitiful compensation for muzzle climb, as does the M-16A4, though the A4 is slightly better. The downside here is that the A4's frontal weight actually comes from wider handgrips, meaning it's more difficult to grip. As well, the grip that you actually use on the M-16 varient rifle is or should be in the slip ring for any degree of consistant accuracy without having to muscle it. Unfortunately for the A4, the larger "slats" as I call them leave a smaller exposed area over the sliprings, so you have to grip the slats. Having fired the majority of the service rifles of the western world post 1900, and a few from before, I'd have to say that if I made a top 5 list of worst muzzle control, the M-16 would head it. For a .22 round, it climbs a ridiculous amount. Even the M-14 and the M-1 offer a quicker target reacquisition.

    That said, the sway of the weapon and the muzzle climb while firing moving are completely realistic. Just be thankful that the weapon doesn't actually slip off your shoulder while walking every 15 seconds, as it well should in my military opinion. One more reason why the M-16 is just 8 more pounds of crap.

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  23. #27

    GeneralCarver's Avatar

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnesBL0278 View Post
    ... And for future reference, when I say combat glide, that's what we jarheads use in reference to the civillian "Walking while aiming."
    No Barnes, us "Jar Bellies" (civs) use the phrase "shooting on the move".

    But thats o.k. I don't expect a Jarhead to be up on all the complicated lingo us Jar Bellies use in Civ land.

    ;D

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  25. #28



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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by generalcarver View Post
    no barnes, us "jar bellies" (civs) use the phrase "shooting on the move".

    But thats o.k. I don't expect a jarhead to be up on all the complicated lingo us jar bellies use in civ land.

    ;d
    ohhhhhhhhhh snap!


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  27. #29

    Miles Teg's Avatar

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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    While I only shout the M16A2 out to 300 meters I maintained an expert badge on the weapon and honestly think that overall the muzzle rise on the M16 series of rifles seems fairly accurate as far as I'm concerned. I never had any issues with muzzle rise or re-acquiring targets on pop-up range. Being in a support unit, I never did the "combat walk" think so I can't comment on that (although I ironically learned how to do that in a video journalism class where you do that smooth walk while moving with a camera while recording video). I also have shot the AK-47 and own an SKS. Both of these weapons have similar recoils and can definitely say that the game's muzzle rise is too low and that re-aquisition of target is too fast. For an intermediate cartridge 7.62x39mm has a hefty kick to it. However worse on the older AK's and SKS rifles are the hefty trigger pull weights which is difficult to simulate in ArmA2. This along with poor part tolerances, while giving the weapons great reliability, give them very crappy accuracy past 100 meters without modifications to the weapon. The newer AK74's are reported to be slightly better but I wouldn't expect them to shoot anywhere nearly as accurate as an M16A2 if they have the same part tolerances as older Ak's.
    So what I think is just as important as recoil is shot dispersion. I would VERY much like to see greater shot dispersion on the AK series of weapons much like the high dispersion weapons on the JAM2 mod back in Operation Flashpoint. This way we don't get sniped by AK47 armed insurgents from 500 meters. The only enemy weapons that should pose any serious danger at that range (aside from lucky hits from suppressive fire) are the PKM, PKP, and SVD weapons. Moving down to 300 meters then by the fancier AK-107s (I think thats the right designation) on the enemy Spetnaz and perhaps RPK's. Then under 200 meters, the older AK rifles become reasonably accurate. As I mentioned, increased dispersion has been done before in OFP so it should be possible in ArmA 2.
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  29. #30


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    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    I came across this thread looking for a mod for Arma II where they increased the recoil for rifles. I thought it was ironic that people were saying that the recoil was too much.

    I shoot extensively in real life, even compete in competitions. I own rifles in .308 and have shot the 5.56mm rounds the military uses.

    The recoil in this game is WAY too low. I hope I'll live to see the day that that I can double-tap the way you can in this game. Even on full auto the crosshairs seem to constantly snap back in place. The M4 in this game shoots like a .22lr airsoft gun on full auto. I don't own the game yet, but form the videos I saw, people were shooting full auto at targets nearly 100m away. The recoil was even less than what I saw way back in the Counterstrike days.

    Does anyone know if a mod has been designed yet to increase realism in regards to weapons yet? The game looks promising, but I don't think I'm gonna upgrade me 3 year old PC (outdated already...) if I'm gonna see people going Unreal Tournament on my ass.

    For the guy who said that the sights jump around too much when moving, try this:

    Take a broomstick and tape two toothpicks to it (better yet, buy a bb gun form Wal Mart). Find the longest point in your house and point your makeshift rifle at the wall. Try to line the toothpicks up while you walk towards the wall. Even at the slowest walk you can manage, those sights will be all over the place. It takes years of practice to learn how to shoot on the move, and thats moving at a slow walk, jogging like you do in this game isn't even plausible, unless your targets 10 yards in front of you.

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