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Discussion: Simulation / Armed Assault - Recent level of play, realism and general notes - Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn Maybe even host an open forum for individuals to just share/test
  1. #61

    Inkompetent's Avatar

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
    Maybe even host an open forum for individuals to just share/test their techniques.
    Well, we already have the Armed Assault - Tactics, Missions and Mod Discussions forum...




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  3. #62

    tHa_KhAn's Avatar

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Inkompetent View Post
    Well, we already have the Armed Assault - Tactics, Missions and Mod Discussions forum...
    I agree, but the problem is people are debating written tactics, versus real world tactics, versus work in ArmA tactics. I think it would be helpful to set up a little scenario where the differnt POV's get to try our their tactics. Some things that seem clear in the forum, don't come out so clear in game.
    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

    XBL GT: Khan58


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  5. #63

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    As for me, being a retired career military person doesnt make me a great leader in grunt oriented game because after all i was a squid (Navy). I am more than happly to muddle around as a trooper while learning the things the guys in camos do. What it has done is, I have already done that some dirty rotten stuff that you are now just thinking about doing. Age doesn't make you smarter always... just older always
    Hard Core. Old School. Deal With It.
    Armed Assault Spartan7

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  7. #64

    Miles Teg's Avatar

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    One idea for a class is to first do a class with tips and stuff, and then have each person try organizing and planning a mission on a different map each time with others taking notes and grading how they did. The whole mission wouldn't have to be done, but rather the initial organizing.
    Anyways, that's one format that such a training class could take place.

    I also find that often the tone of your voice makes a HUGE difference. When I do my role playing-voice acting voice (which I actually used in the military), people respond differently even if you're just acting. Barking out in a deep voice, "SQUAD ONLINE! ENEMY FRONT! PREPARE FOR BATTLE!!! FIRE ON MY COMMAND ONLY!" gets the players all pumped up and excited while reminding them to stay weapons yellow. That's where you can really have tons of fun leading by totally being the hollywood bad-ass heroic leader without getting people killed in real life. Players also tend to get motivated and fall in line quickly. At the very least talking in a calm, but firm authoritative voice helps alot as long as they are loud enough for others to hear. Orders must also sound decisive. To Falcon's credit, he is decisive and doesn't waffle too much and only changes orders if the situation warrants it. Unfortunately, as noted by someone else, sometimes there is very little time to change orders.

    So I think Rearden's critique was at least partly right and I hope Falcon, that you take it as good constructive criticism as you have the drive and motivation to be a great leader. I say partly right, because sometimes the "massed wall of infantry" actually works well. So I'm ok with that style of leadership just to try it once inawhile. Like ANY good squad leader if you see clearly a better option, you simply "creatively interpret the orders" or you explain clearly the situation to the CO (and your solution) if time permits. If he says no, and you clearly see the orders are insane, don't bad-mouth him on VOIP or teamspeak as that just saps the morale of the troops. Simply adjust the orders to insure that the overall mission succeeeds. Your role may be suicidal but it may still be necessary and sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept that fact.

    Also... Falcon's not the only CO that micro-manages. We just like to give him alot of crap for it. lol We have several other leaders with similar styles of management who have been with TG for a loooong time.
    Honestly for me it's not a big deal and I only tell Falcon (and other CO's) to hurry it up if things are taking too long.

    For CO's a good practice is to do what we do in real life operations. Give start times for convoys or an airassault to begin moving out. You don't have to be anal about it. You simply say, "Squad leaders, we have 5 minutes to get your guys boarded on the choppers or trucks." "This squad takes this vehilce, this other squad takes this vehicle, anyone who doesn't fit takes this vehicle or awaits for transport to pick them up on a second transport run." I personally don't like wasting time adding extra weapons to vehicles unless we have a clear staging area close to the objective and enough people to allow drivers/gunners to stay with the vehicles. Better i think for designated transport drivers/pilots to provide resupply with JIP's helping to load up extra ammo.

    Coordinating that aspect of CO'ing is I think the most difficult part personally. The tactical stuff is all gravy to me....the logistics to me is the grueling "not fun" part. Having a 2nd in command to coordinate transport/resupply REALLY REALLY helps but sadly is seldom used.
    I strongly believe that we should make it TG SOP (Standard Operating Precedures) that the 2nd in command (in the command squad if such a position exists) be responsible for such tasks. That way the CO can totally concentrate on the fluid battlefield and coordinating the squads to maximize mutual firesupport as well as concentrating on battlefield intel from recon teams. Recon is rarely used (snipers are also poorly used in this role but are excellent for recon). This in my opinion needs to change.
    Recon and recon leaders who understand how to disengage from any contacts, are critical. Any training class on Commanding should involve the proper usage of recon squads. I used to lead quartering parties (non-glamorous term for U.S. Army Corp of Engineers company or batallion recon teams) for my company in real life so I'm familiar with route recon, mine clearing of staging areas, etc... or at least of what I can remember.
    So I may not use the right terms, but I'm fairly good at doing the sneaky sneaky thing and just probing for contacts and then withdrawing.
    I'd be happy to help with any training.
    "LETS ROLL GROUNDHOGS!!!" -Supreme Bashar Miles Teg (Heretics of Dune)


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  9. #65

    Miles Teg's Avatar

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
    As for me, being a retired career military person doesnt make me a great leader in grunt oriented game because after all i was a squid (Navy). I am more than happly to muddle around as a trooper while learning the things the guys in camos do. What it has done is, I have already done that some dirty rotten stuff that you are now just thinking about doing. Age doesn't make you smarter always... just older always

    Chief what we need are more ship addons for you to command!!! If only we could get some destroyers with some of Mando's cruise missile scripts and working heavy guns on them. Then we could designate you as our naval commander.
    "LETS ROLL GROUNDHOGS!!!" -Supreme Bashar Miles Teg (Heretics of Dune)


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  11. #66



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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Here you go Chief


    Bastion: "I always enjoy it when the mentally questionable are given control of flying the aircraft"

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  13. #67

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Jaysus H Christ on a crutch!!! Now ya got me goin!
    Hard Core. Old School. Deal With It.
    Armed Assault Spartan7

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  15. #68

    Inkompetent's Avatar

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Very nice post, Miles! And regarding logistics, isn't that what Staff Sergeants usually do? Take care of all the crap while the XO/CO focuses on waging the battle?




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  17. #69



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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    if its a company level op (where the CO/XO would be involved) then it would be the company First Sergeant. Platoon level it would be the Platoon Sergeant which normally is a Sergeant First Class.


    Bastion: "I always enjoy it when the mentally questionable are given control of flying the aircraft"

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  19. #70

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Ahh, First Sergeant. Sergeant First Class. Why not have more distinctive names than just tossing the words around? :P




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  21. #71



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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    K.I.S.S lol


    Bastion: "I always enjoy it when the mentally questionable are given control of flying the aircraft"

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  23. #72


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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by TurkishDelight View Post
    Many of the people you disagree/argue/whatever with are.....
    I was just thinking the same thing.....cough cough me

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  25. #73

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boondocksaint View Post
    I was just thinking the same thing.....cough cough me
    Sorry for the snarky response this morning Boon. I'm a bastard before I get my coffee. You're a serving commissioned officer? Respect.

    EDIT:

    I might also point out we just had a hugely successful round with exemplary team play and excellent leadership which prioritized delegation, under Dr.Nner. I squad-led 13 guys and was thrilled to be able to say 'Conditions optimal, 100% Combat effectiveness, targets are being engaged... we're all okay here, how about you?' in response to repeated commander queries. We accomplished our objectives, finished every enemy we encountered, did not get flanked, had no friendly fire incidents in the field (unfortunate AA missile accident in base) and had a good time. The only shouting occurred during combat and to my knowledge, the CO didn't even leave the main to check up on the situation on the ground. We received munitions when we needed them in a timely fashion and pilots made their way to known safe landing zones for insert/extract. An experience that stands out in my mind as a pinnacle of teamplay by all who were involved. Even with two huge squads functioning in the same city, we didn't have a single blue-on-blue, and by the end my guys were innately employing fire and maneuver techniques independent of my directives. One thing I could have done better is delegating fireteams, but after spending 10 minutes trying to sort us out I decided to just trust in my guys common sense... and it worked out. Thank you to all who played in that one, definitely a mission to remember.
    Last edited by Hank Rearden; 11-30-2009 at 09:18 PM.


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  27. #74

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Rearden
    On that note: Do we actually have any serving reserve, national guard or regular force officers here at TG in Arma2? I'd like to hear from a true military professional. It's my career intention, but I'm curious if there are actually any professionals educated in military science who would deign to play a video game.
    Yeah, there are a few of us, spread amongst various nationalities. Barnes is in the Marines, we used to have a guy in the Israeli military. I spent 8 years in the Army.

    All the stuff you said was good, I agree with your tactics. Unfortunately, when someone steps up and takes CO, the SLs and everyone below the CO take the implied oath to follow their orders. Make suggestions in the pre-mission Command channel chat, but once the mission kicks off, follow the CO's orders whether or not you agree. You can request adjustments to the orders, you can suggest different options, you can ask, "Are you really sure you want me to do that?", but ultimately do what the CO decides. A good majority of those players that step up and volunteer to be the CO may not have any idea what separates a "good plan" from a "bad plan". If its a WWII frontal assault against a strongly-defended hill, then get to assaulting. If its a long, boring, 20 km column march to an objective over an open field, then get to marching.

    Your example of where you disregarded Falcon's orders was in itself a tactically-sound maneuver, but conduct-wise it was incorrect and goes against our Primer (the overarching rules of how to conduct oneself while playing in any Tactical Gamer servers). Don't take matters into your own hands. If the CO is killed, then take over your squad and evaluate the situation and adjust the plan accordingly. If all Squad Leads take matters into their own hands and disregard CO orders (even ones that are insane and would real-world lead the CO to being relieved and facing a court martial) then we have no structure to the server.

    Falcon likes to micromanage, Soviet-style. Other COs take the US approach of disseminating orders and letting Squad Leaders take care of their subordinates. Whichever the style, follow the orders.

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  29. #75

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    Re: Recent level of play, realism and general notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon_262 View Post
    ...I would like to offer what I think one of the best solutions would be to the problem... revitalize the pathfinders program...
    What exactly does this involve? In the past, us Pathfinders were picked because we showed leadership and contribution to the community. There was no stipulations other than follow the TG rules and try to help lead missions. Where are the pathfinders failing these days?

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