Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

**Mikee** · 12-28-2009, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ghost02

EXACTLY!

We played 3+ hours of fallout [more like 4] and then when we try to play a mission that is TG, it goes to crap and then goes back to fallout.

I have an idea. Take crooks, tesla, fallout, and poppy off the server. Play more of falcons missions [the attack/defend] and go back to what TG is.

BTW I made Poppy, I want it gone, it is not what I thought it was going to be and it does not work. It was an experiment that failed and I accept that. No problem.

Ghost, you would take the missions down because some people can't behave? How about kick people out of server that can't behave, so we can play ANY mission in mature way.

Fallout needs fixing. There will be version 2.0 that is more like TG style.

**Ghost02** · 12-28-2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by viper1986

TG is not just these attack/defend type missions.

I know. While creating missions like the one I am making now [grenada] we need to stop playing free-form. Attack and defend at least use tactics and are *milsim* not *roleplay*.
Also, doing these missions, true tactical ones, [not just A/D!] we weed out the people we do not want. TG was never about the majority, but the minority who play right, and playing real, tough, true missions will take the people we do not want and make em whine and bitch. BUT! The people we do cater to will create threads of joy, not threads like this.

Mike: Yes. If the mission does not work the mission does not work. If players cannot behave on an *experiment* then I take it off.

**Boondocksaint** · 12-28-2009, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ghost02

EXACTLY!

We played 3+ hours of fallout [more like 4] and then when we try to play a mission that is TG, it goes to crap and then goes back to fallout.

I have an idea. Take crooks, tesla, fallout, and poppy off the server. Play more of falcons missions [the attack/defend] and go back to what TG is.

BTW I made Poppy, I want it gone, it is not what I thought it was going to be and it does not work. It was an experiment that failed and I accept that. No problem.

thanks for agreeing with me ghost, but you are wrong lol. That isn't TG, TG is what the community says it is. If poppy Fallout and tesla are the new TG because the majoriy of players like it then thats TG. There is no set this is what TG in arma is. TG AMRA is always evolving and you can either evolve with it or leave. Not to sound harsh but its a community so there is no set TG standard.

**Boondocksaint** · 12-28-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by viper1986

Ghost,

Your idea of TG is misunderstood...

TG is not just these attack/defend type missions. TG is whatever the community provides and how we approach them. If you thinking attack/defend missions create order then your blind. The community depends on the player base and if they act like children then so be it. People need to learn to switch modes depending on the mission and if your going to force people to play certain style's of missions then you have many screws loose.

I don't care if the mission is herding cattle or driving the tractor, it's how the people approach it.

and me and viper must be posting at the same time ahahaha

**Inq** · 12-28-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ghost02

EXACTLY!

We played 3+ hours of fallout [more like 4] and then when we try to play a mission that is TG, it goes to crap and then goes back to fallout.

I have an idea. Take crooks, tesla, fallout, and poppy off the server. Play more of falcons missions [the attack/defend] and go back to what TG is.

BTW I made Poppy, I want it gone, it is not what I thought it was going to be and it does not work. It was an experiment that failed and I accept that. No problem.

No offence to falcon but after playing one of those missions I get fairly bored.

I don't share the view that playing US vs RU attack and defend missions over and over is the be all and end all of TG ARMA 2.

Im pretty sure all TG arma 2 is about is playing ARMA 2 with a group of similar minded players that all want to work as a team in missions. No matter what the mission involves.

**WH_Boomer** · 12-28-2009, 01:19 PM

Greetings all,
I'm a long time lurker on these forums, as well as playing on TG from back in original ARMA with ACE and loving it. What I liked about TG was the fact that it was ran with tactics and teamwork in mind. I and several of my fellow squad members would wait on TS for a mission to complete with just the hope that a slot would open up in the next mission.

The last mission I played here was the Tesla mission, over and over and over, because it kept getting voted up. It was ok the first time through, but there was no real teamwork to speak of. I was on OPFOR, and the squad leader nor any leaders for that matter even bothered to use Teamspeak, instead typed chat back and forth with the BLUFOR.

I suffered through 2 iterations of this when a slot finally opened up on the BLUFOR side. A fellow squad member from the War Hawks had been playing on the BLUFOR side and I had hoped to join him. I did as a medic, for about 30 seconds. Then the admin at the time decided he wanted his buddy who had just joined to be on BLUFOR and I was moved back to the pool. At that point I had enough sillyness and cast my vote by logging off for the evening.

While its true that the TG community is constantly evolving, I do think it might be something to consider that there are already a bunch of imitation Quake servers available, but the true "mil-sim" tactical servers are few and far between. The talk of people creating their own servers will only fracture the community even further.

So in conclusion, I suppose it comes down to a question of whether you want TG to be ruled by totally open servers where the purpose is to get the most kills on the scoreboard, or where teamwork, and getting everyone back home after a hard mission rules the day.

Thanks for listening,
WH_Boomer

**Donegal** · 12-28-2009, 01:49 PM

I love the more free-form missions. Inq, Storm Chaser immedietly caught my attention when I joined TG for it's creativity. I remember saying to myself, wow if he can do this what can others do with this engine down the road. We are down the road now and Mikee absolutely blew me away with Fallout. My expectations were high after reading about it in the mission dev thread but when I saw it...my jaw dropped!

I also like to play the more 'mainstream' milsim missions. I was always a supporter of Falcons missions even when everyone else was booing them. The night 9 of us played his Recon mission when it first came out ranks up there in my top ArmA Experiences.

And for all you RP haters, guess what? You are RPing everytime you load up this game. You just happen to only like Roleplaying one particular thing. Even if you are former military your life wasn't ever like it is in the game, I guarantee it. Maybe some parts here and there are similar, but if you wanted 'Reality' how come none of you has come up with a mission where you wait in line for chow, shuffling a few feet forward every couple of minutes? Or a script that lets you meticulously clean your weapon for several hours? Or sit on the rifle range for 6 hours firing just 3 rounds to zero your weapon?

There are other issues that surround the problems brought up by previous posters as well that may not seem a part of the discussion but are. I'll just list a few here for you all to consider:

1. Leadership - No one wants to step up. It is the same people in CO, SL positions every one of those 'milsim' maps. I don't do it as much as others I see here but I can tell you I am getting tired of it. It's starting to feel more like herding cats than leading competent, tactical players. That leads to players grouping together with others that have similar playstyles and/or view each other as 'good' players. Then those players get branded as 'elitist' because they want to maximize the fun of their playing time.

2. Lack of Missions - I can only think of a handful of missions that even work. Most are broke, outdated or not on the server. I'm not playing Ia Drang 3 times a night anymore than you don't want to play Fallout 3 times in a day. (No offense to Ia Drang - great mission - just a little played out on it at the moment).

**Sam Hoy** · 12-28-2009, 01:53 PM

Anyway in relation to your prime time map rotation: That would get old really fast AND what constitutes prime time? Theres alot of people from different time zones here now

How would it get old really fast? The details of the list would change everyday and it would PREVENT us from playing the same mission over and over again.

**Exuve** · 12-28-2009, 02:08 PM

Your text walls scare me. *hides*

**h3killa** · 12-28-2009, 02:56 PM

From what I see here people want a mission with a twist at every turn but still order and SOPs. Why not make a structured mission with multiple objectives. Make it a TVTish CooP
20ish BLUFOR vs 5-10 OPFOR. BLUFOR has to attack an objective WHILE not allowing a, lets say OPFOR general reach the border. 15 or so BLUFOR attack the objective. 4-9 Human + 30ish AI OPFOR defend an objective while the OPFOR CO has to setup a defense while away from the acual objective BEING chased by a small BLUFOR Specops team. There you go. A map with free thinking,TVTish CooP, multiple objectives with order.

**beita** · 12-28-2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Donegal

...

1. Leadership - No one wants to step up. It is the same people in CO, SL positions every one of those 'milsim' maps. I don't do it as much as others I see here but I can tell you I am getting tired of it. It's starting to feel more like herding cats than leading competent, tactical players. That leads to players grouping together with others that have similar playstyles and/or view each other as 'good' players. Then those players get branded as 'elitist' because they want to maximize the fun of their playing time.

2. Lack of Missions - I can only think of a handful of missions that even work. Most are broke, outdated or not on the server. I'm not playing Ia Drang 3 times a night anymore than you don't want to play Fallout 3 times in a day. (No offense to Ia Drang - great mission - just a little played out on it at the moment).

I agree with these sentiments ...

Not sure what to do about the Leadership Conundrum, but, lack of missions is pretty easily solved.

"that even work"

As you know, the people who make missions at TG do it on their free time and are not paid. They are using tools that are ... interesting ... and generally not-working-as-expected. They are using a mod that is in a BETA stage. They are constantly being asked to produce "worth while milsim missions".

The amount of work that goes into a standard mission at TG Arma2 is at least twice that of TG Arma1. The quality bar has simply been raised. It was raised slowly, so, the people who don't make the missions didn't realize it. Fact is the missions are more and more using scripts that are complex in the fact that they need to have their locality assessed. Whether it should be run on the server, a specific client, everyone, etc. You can logical think it out and "think" you have it right, but, the only way to be certain is to test it.

Now, testing missions at TG is probably the most painful thing to do around here. There is no systematic way to get a mission uploaded for testing. Usually there is people willing to help test, but you have to provide your own server. Your server differs from the TG server, in both mods and config. So, your test results differ from what actually happens on the TG server.

So, to expect the mission creators to keep producing "worth while milsim missions" that require more and more complexity, while also maintaining that NO mission can have any bugs, and not providing a dedicated test server ... that is a recipe for a low volume of mission output.

**Donegal** · 12-28-2009, 05:48 PM

Roger that Beita. I, in no way, meant to imply that our mission makers are slacking. In fact I am awed by the commitment and prowess it takes to make any mission. That is one of the reasons I support the 'alternate' style missions so much. I imagine it takes even more time, skill and creativity to create those as it does a more 'standard' mission.

I would also imagine that the rapid pace of adopting new material (TG Modpack, then ACE2, then TG Mappack) along with the constant patching of the mods negatively impacts many missions as well. In fact, if I were a mission maker I would probably not even bother updating my maps until we settle down with all that.

I appreciate anybody who makes any kind of mission for us, that is another reason my hackles get raised when people start condemning the missions that someone worked so hard to create. If it isn't your cup of tea, fine, organize an event where the types of missions you like to play are presented. I'll show up.

**beita** · 12-28-2009, 06:21 PM

Ah, not saying anyone is being unappreciative or whatever. Just saying that there is a reason for the lack of missions.

Anyone who makes more than a few missions obviously enjoys doing it, so, they will likely continue to do it, but, they won't make as many missions because of the issues discussed.

**TacticalJim** · 12-28-2009, 06:58 PM

Haven't played in a couple of weeks so I have missed the poppy games and fallout games. I friggen love the idea of Tesla though I will admit that good sessions of it are few and far between. Why? Its not because the mission is not well defined (defined pretty strraight forward in fact). Its simply the lack of maturity on the server. Imagine how tactical this mission could be. Once I lead a terrorist squad. I got a civilian bus...placed it on a route on the road I believed tesla was on. Parked the bus around a sharp turn blocking the road. Satched it and we took our positions up the hill and waited. Sweet!

This actually took some planning and was very tactical in my opinion. It simply required players that wanted to make it happen. Now this killing hookers stuff has no business here but I still think we need wome new TvT to really grow. There is no reason why a TvT mission can't be milsim if the players set it up right by being mature.

Perhaps, as with say scenario games in paintball or war games in the military, we should save these free form missions as signup events so that we can ensure that only people that are indeed wishing to play it as it was intended get to play.

**Soupy_Norman** · 12-28-2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sam Hoy

How would it get old really fast? The details of the list would change everyday and it would PREVENT us from playing the same mission over and over again.

Well it would be fine if someone came along and changed it every day. Otherwise it would get very repetitive

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