DSB - After the Madness

**ParkBench** · 12-13-2007, 10:11 AM

So... I guess I'll kick off this discussion / AAR. Department Store Battles 12/12 Hosted by Lucky and the 5th. Again, a good time. Crazy fun... and yet frustrating.

I really liked the four wheeler with the machine gun on it... and I learned even with bizarre physics, I can't fly anything, helo, plane, jet, raft, TANK... you name it, I can't fly it.!

I felt/looked ridiculous shifting all around in my chair, tilting my head trying to follow my sites trying to fly planes.

I'll stick to the Mystery Machine thanks.

I did continuously get confused by the verbal rules/guidelines we were setting on the TS channel. "hey come on, that gun is off limits, its too insane." at first I was too slow to realize which kit came with that gun (BF7 was it). So... I kept opting for the 'ENG' kit, to 'bob the builder' up some bridges, so I could drive the mystery machine into action. and when I needed to shoot, I went with the hand gun... just to get sniped by another ENG using the gun I thought was decided 'off limits' *shrug* I didn't care except to say, it sucked. maybe the wait time to respawn after death should've been 0.

8 vs 8 with probably 50 vehicles per side... that was kinda fun.

and again, sorry to the guys (Nardini and IMI) trying to duke it out mano a mano. I saw a red tag and shot. I so rarely got a good siteline on an enemy... too hasty with the trigger.

shooting helo out of the sky with a medic handgun. that was fun... getting sniped by the super sniper rifle... not. even on acid I still hate the sniper kit...I need counseling.

Thanks Guys... now, I'll keep up the campaign for Pirates next week!

**Cnlcorn** · 12-13-2007, 10:14 AM

Ha great time last night. Now going back to PR will take some adjustment.

**IMI-50AE** · 12-13-2007, 05:36 PM

While at first this mod was interesting, it quickly devolved into the hardcore spamming of two classes: Sniper and Engineer. Why? Because the sniper gets a precision one-shot-kill-anything gun and a pistol that shoots artillery rounds, and the engineer get his "I-win-button" gun that has a 999 round magazine, one-shot-kills most things, has a really high ROF, and good splash damage. The only other class I saw played at all was a little spec ops and some medic. Now I'm sure people will say they took those because that's what they like or the other kits suck. Well guess what? Get some skill, use those 'crappy' kits.

Toward the end I was pretty much letting everyone on TS know how lame I thought they were, especially since the only guns I was getting killed with were the sniper and MP7(the uber gun). Yeah, random death from nowhere, that's a lot of fun! I gave up trying to actually fight people since everyone was determined to use the cheapest guns around (nope, no skill for TG! We just want to whore some kills!), and ended up flying the tanks around.

Sure, you say "well what did you expect with a mod like this?" I expected to have fun and see more than two kits being played, how about that?

Obviously not a serious mod, but not too entertaining either. When you'd rather die than be critically wounded because you spawn faster when you die, you know there's a problem.

I vote that we don't see this mod ever again. For all the supposed hilarity and 'awesomeness', I've had more fun on pub DCon servers.

**Axis of Eeevil** · 12-14-2007, 01:44 AM

Well, I only played 3 maps, but I never played Engy and only for 3 minutes a sniper (don't see what's so great about the gun, but then again I suck at sniping), although I was certainly killed by those kits frequently. You know, a whole lot. Like really, really, a lot. INCESSANTLY at times. On my spawn. Until I almost logged off to TS a request for a kick. *cough*

I'll give it a 4 out of 10, but it was more like several moments of 8 and 9 amidst an unrelenting 2 or 3, due more to how people were playing than any inherent fault of the mod. I'm sure it has it's flaws but it was hard to see it amidst the glaring inappropriateness of some people's behavior.

What was more interesting to me was to see some of the most basic behaviors that are frowned upon at TG come right out to become a regular part of the play,--notice I don't say 'teamplay'-- with all the obnoxious persistence of a public Pwnz0rZ server. Simultaneously, all the 'Tactical' seemed to go out the window, along with teamwork, orders, squadleading and cohesion. Somehow the wacky colors, flying tank/choppers and SAM handguns caused a delirium of experimental let's see-what-happens-this-time flashing-red-button-pushing. Which is fine, to a point. To persist is to just take advantage of an exploit to maintain a positive K/D ratio--which seemed the main subject of 'discussion' on TS in between maps. As if!

In other words, we spoil ourselves in a way, by playing mods that are designed to encourage or even require our style of play. When those boundaries were gone, most, if not all of us, let our internal boundaries of TG-appropriate play expand to fit the boundaries set by the mod, instead of keeping our internal compass zeroed on true North.The mod has no real boundaries, which allows for all kinds of idiocy. Instead of taking a careful and cognizant look at how we could keep it TG, there were many who seemed not to be able to hold the urge to go bonkers in check. Please don't say, "Hey that's what the mod is all about, it's supposed to be goofy, it's supposed to be fun!" Am I against goofy? Am I against fun? Please! If I want that kind of 'fun' I'll get some acne going, wear a baseball cap anyway but straight, and head to Chuck E. Cheese.

I found the maps creative and compelling, the variety of weapons and transportation intriguing, and the real possibility of some good TG-style fun, within agreed-upon boundaries. Unfortunately, I saw a lot of people wasting our Wednesday Mod Night by succumbing to the inane 13-year-old soul of the mod's designers instead of just taking it in stride and keeping it TG.

Who said we were going to dispense with TG-style of play, I don't know, but it seemed to me that we all kind of folded under the temptation that all the wackiness offered. I want to see this mod again, I want to see what it can offer us in the way of some mature gameplay, and I think it presents us with a really cool challenge: how to play maturely within a mod that is so immature it make Beavis and Butthead look like Rhodes Scholars?

I'll admit that I'm taking a pretty strong stance here, but I really looked forward to this mod, and I couldn't enjoy it, because people couldn't stop themselves from matching the mod's obnoxiousness with their own. Next time, fight the power! Play TG.

**ParkBench** · 12-14-2007, 09:19 AM

hey Axis, I think, this opinion is purely my insanity, the foundations of TG don't really work well in 7 on 7 or 9 on 9 matches. We were all joining the first squad so we could hear each other... If we'd done teamwork, we'd have seen like 5 squads of 2 people each. helo, planes, and such.

I found this mod didn't 'reward' for doing team work things. Repairing bridges, supporting , defending flags... reviving. none of those things were 'rewarded' I spent an entire map cycle on the crazy bridges map, as a eng, just repairing bridges, never got a shot off, and in the end of the round, I was - points, cause I fell off buildings a couple times.

for what it was... Madness, it was interesting... but in way did I expect any of the TG guidelines to be upheld.

now for Pirates, next week... (yeah, I think it'll pull out the victory) Hopefully things will come back to 'normal' though, last time... it was hard to really squad up and work as a team. We tried, but the mod was all new to everyone. the first several maps were just figuring out what stuff did.

**Gahlas** · 12-14-2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by ParkBench

...this opinion is purely my insanity, the foundations of TG don't really work well in 7 on 7 or 9 on 9 matches.

It is both the mod and the situation we have going with these mod nights, not the number of players. Sit and Spam is what the mod is all about so I don't understand why people expected there to be any teamwork. There is no bleed so taking flags is pointless other than the vehicle spawns.

Also, I have noticed almost no teamwork or communication on any of the nights we have had, the only exception being a few rounds of CTF. Most of the time people are not even in squads. This is probably due to the fact that everyone is just exploring rather than focusing on the TG stuff.

Small games have the best potential for all the TG goodness we love. So many amazing rounds have been had in Vanilla or on Tacmod with just 2 squads. They were usually a lot better than the 64 player games.

**Cnlcorn** · 12-14-2007, 02:03 PM

There were a few times me and ebodude teamed up to try and keep the arty chopper in the air, but then it turned into a baserape and the choppers never left the ground again that round.

**khaerus** · 12-14-2007, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Axis of Eeevil

I'll admit that I'm taking a pretty strong stance here

And I believe you do so correctly. For my part, I apologize for letting things get so far out of hand. I firmly believe we should indeed be experimenting within the context of the chosen mod (and this particular mod's context is, at the least, ridiculous.) However, when those experiments start interfering with even a decent semblance of gameplay here on a TG server, well, that's a situation that's calls for some interference.

I should have shut that door the first time I (or anyone) got spawn-killed with a magic rifle from who-knows-where. I can see how that sounds silly in a mod where we were flying rocket-powered tanks, but that's how we'll roll from here on out.

Man, I was fascinated by those flying hover-cars, though.

Switching gears, has anyone else played OPK? They have some of my favorite maps in ANY mod these days... Think I'll plug it for one of these upcoming Wed. nights.

**Lucky Shot** · 12-15-2007, 12:31 AM

With a mod like that you will not win with team style tactics. There are 800 flags and 8 players. Almost every weapon is designed to not only kill it's target but anyone within 500 feet. To stand next to a teammate is to welcome a quick death. Some mods will be better then others to inspire teamwork, Department Store Battles is not one of them and will never be one of them.

My current goal with Midweek Modness is to experience the various other BF mods out there. That includes testing vehicles, checking out maps and seeing what innovative tools they have created. This tends towards bigger maps which with smaller numbers can only encourage solid teamplay through bots if the mod has coop support. Fun is right up there too, but you will not experience good teamwork until you start to see certain mods consistently.

Desert Conflict Capture the Flag mode is set up THE BEST for teamwork of any of the mods out there. Even with a good game mode though the teamwork was a struggle as we didn't cover flag carriers, squads didn't form up correctly and for a number of reasons. That can only improve as people get more familiar with it. In contrast, Department Store Battles does not reward good teamwork but it was a silly mod and in it's own way was fun.

Some mods will bring great teamwork while others will be silly mods. Regardless, on the first time playing a mod, you will likely see less teamwork as people are experimenting. It's not until you play a mod consistently that you will start to see good teamwork and some mods you will never see good teamwork.

Lucky Shot