Re: UMSC's "TeamWork" squad and lastnight's games

**Syn** · 06-29-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

I don't know who was leading Squad 4 last night, but I want to shake his hand.

Damn near every time he addressed me on comms, he referenced his squad number. He also was in CONSTANT communication with me, the commander -- a luxury I didn't enjoy with all of the other squads.

^^I've done that too as SL before, I was never sure if I was pissing off the commander or not, lol. I wasn't leading squad 4 last night, but saying 'squad X needs orders/artillary/etc just seems to make sense to me. Tell the comm what's happening on the ground, what i think would benefit our situation, etc... There's just too much going on to NOT communicate regularily with the commander.

I think anyone with Natural Selection experience can appreciate the whole commander communication thing, and organized troop movement, I sure do.

**Wulfyn** · 06-29-2005, 11:52 AM

Well if you guys stop playing as the silly USMC side we could have some decent MEC CO's - we tend to get them rarely unfortunately (the worst time being when no-one wanted the job so one of my squaddies took it,only to have so many mutinies running against him he came back to my squad only for no-one to take it up afterwards - GRRRR!!!).

I like to introduce my squad to the CO, saying the preferred role etc. And it really doesn't take a lot of getting used to to begin every sentence something like

"CO, Squad 4," before "requesting UAV on my objective" etc. If I didn't say squad 4 then how would the CO know where I want the UAV? And it's a lot quicker than using the ingame request to just ask for it

I also give the CO extra info he might not have now and then, and appreciate the return favour.

-----

Jedi - yeah we got a bit lucky there. The USMC were about 15 ahead until around 32-32. After taking the east side back (which was surprisingly un-contested apart form a tank ambush!!) I simply held my squad still on the south west corner of that side, to stop us losing some easy flags. With the bridge down we were at the natural choke-point. The CO did ask me to move, but luckily he was on comms so I managed to negotiate (ie convince) him that we were better off where we were. And it worked, as we staved off a small push. 20-0 win at the end in a very very close and hard fought game!

**JediPilot** · 06-29-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Tempus

Tarpan, was that you? Actually, there are many SLs who are really getting into the hang of things. This stuff really helps the commander out.

I guess I don't talk to Commanders as much as I should; always think that they'll get too overwhelmed.......then again, half the time we either DON'T HAVE ONE (a problem last night) or they DON'T RESPOND.

**Trooper** · 06-29-2005, 12:03 PM

i played a round yesterday and to me it seemd the MEC wher more organized then USMC, just my thoughts

**asch** · 06-29-2005, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by JediPilot

I guess I don't talk to Commanders as much as I should; always think that they'll get too overwhelmed.......then again, half the time we either DON'T HAVE ONE (a problem last night) or they DON'T RESPOND.

Keep the communication short and to the point. "Squad 4 has secured the objective.", "Squad 5 is under heavy assault", "Squad 2 is ready for new orders.", etc.

**TheLeech** · 06-29-2005, 12:14 PM

My apologies to anyone on USMC who ended up in my squad last night. I've a LOT of improvement ahead of me if I want to be effective. But thanks for putting up with me, I did learn a lot last night, such as: don't lead from the front :-).

**Nemesis** · 06-29-2005, 12:25 PM

I was getting kicked and Disco'ed so much last night that I was pretty much worthless for about 90% of the time I was in. My apologies to anyone that I was squadded with when I "left" out of the blue.

I was seeing some enemies as "Blue" and even getting TK messaged when I killed the people or they killed me or my squadmates when no one else in my squad was. (I think Trigger thought I was insane last night...)

Seems like my whole game decided to kick my ass last night with all kinds of issues so hopefully anyone that played with me will understand.

**AMosely** · 06-29-2005, 12:29 PM

I was only on for a really short period last night ( < 30 min) before I had to quit out prematurely, but whoever the squad leader was, he was doing an awful job. It was the only squad with room, so I joined up. With a name like "USMC Teamwork" I figured the communication would be good - instead there was no communication. Sometimes our SL would just stand there, with the whole team standing around watching him pick his nose.

Why isn't there a way to vote out your SL?

Needless to say, I didn't really accomplish anything under that kind of leadership. I hope this pub server doesn't go to @#% in the coming days/weeks. Then again, if it does, I assume the private server will just get all the good players (ppl who play the game as it is designed to be played), in which case I'll have to join up.

**JediPilot** · 06-29-2005, 12:33 PM

Lol, that was the first squad I joined up last night. THe only thing I heard for 15 minutes was "Do y'all have mikes? Use 'em.". That's IT. That was our SL talking, too.

**Syn** · 06-29-2005, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by AMosely

Why isn't there a way to vote out your SL?

Or a way for the SL to relinquish command to someone else, instead of Leave/Join until the musical chairs turns out right. Last night one game went on for 10 minutes while my squad figured out who was gonna lead hanging around basecamp. And I was like "ok guys, how about we decide this WHILE moving to the front lines..."

**SmokingTarpan** · 06-29-2005, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Well if you guys stop playing as the silly USMC side we could have some decent MEC CO's

Monday night after the server restarted, I joined up again and it defaulted me to the USMC side on Zatar Wetlands. Someone said "uh, teams", and I looked at the player list and it was 38-5 in favor of the USMC. I told my squad I was going over to the MEC, and they all followed (it was funny hearing 5 other people suicide domino-style).

I took my squad all the way from the MEC UCB to the west airbase flag. We captured and held it for 20min, keeping the enemy air support to almost nothing. Then the CO ordered us all the way across the map to attack a flag that had just been neutralized by our team, and the airbase fell immediately. I tried to get the CO to let my squad stay put, but he wasn't listening, and we managed to get hit hard by enemy air for the rest of the game. We did win, but it was much rougher than it should have been.

I've dealt with CO's that were good at giving support, but poor at tactics. I think it'll just take time for people to realize what the truly important objectives are.

**MileHighAko** · 06-29-2005, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wulfyn

"CO, Squad 4," before "requesting UAV on my objective" etc. If I didn't say squad 4 then how would the CO know where I want the UAV? And it's a lot quicker than using the ingame request to just ask for it

Although it might be quicker to use the comm channel to request UAV, do try to always use the SL commo rose or the map, as it puts an indicator on the commanders map and all he has to do is right click on that area and say "accept". Of course you might be in a big firefight, but the commander also has half a dozen squads to magane, that is why it is best to use the map whenever possible.

Agreed 100% on stating your squad number at the beginning of all commander communications.

**AMosely** · 06-29-2005, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

I tried to get the CO to let my squad stay put, but he wasn't listening, and we managed to get hit hard by enemy air for the rest of the game. We did win, but it was much rougher than it should have been.

CO's need to listen to SL's more (and SL's need to speak up more). In the case above, clearly the CO should have kept you where you were at, if things had been going that well. The few times that I've been CO, I've always said to the SL's that I'll start coughing up orders, but if they didn't want an order to go ahead and decline but make sure you tell me what order you DO want so that I can plan accordingly.

As much as possible as a CO I try and get squads to flank and support each other, so if one is pinned down or doesn't want to move, that may change my decision to move another squad.

In my opinion, the CO is in a position to make or break the game by positioning squads at key points on the battlefield - getting squads to back each other up, create diversions, cover pathways, etc. Then again, if your CO is clearly an idiot, you need to disobey. I just think it's important to say why you are disobeying instead of just negative acknowledgement - if the CO is listening as they should, they will eventually figure it out.

**Syrel** · 06-29-2005, 03:02 PM

Last night was my first experience with TG, and I have to say I'm impressed. Even when things got bad, people worked together and tried to bring it under control. I apologize to my fellow squad members and leaders for not being a good "medic" but I was new at it. Anyways, it was good to see BF2 being played in the way it was intended.

**xemu** · 06-29-2005, 03:16 PM

There's definitely some problem I've seen where even though the commander spot is empty, people who are applying never get the chance to accept. I've seen this happen in at least two separate games. So that could explain some of the "mutinies, but no one replaced" incidents.

It does seem overly hard to get a mutiny... I'd love to see SLs getting 3x voting power in mutiny votes or something, along with the ability to designate who the SL is besides just recreating a new squad.

I find being SL much more intimidating than being commander. As commander I can trust the squads to carry out their tasks and just deal with high level coordination. As SL the hecticness of combat and low-level situational awareness, combined with constantly fighting my instincts to engage in the front lines, I'm just overwhelmed and feel like I'm letting people down. I'm always unsure when we should keep trying when our assaults on a flag are failing vs try to get the commander to redirect more troops, etc.

I've mostly commander on non TG servers though... it's too intimidating to do it on the TG ones for the most part.

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