Command, orders, and communication

**Tempus** · 06-12-2005, 10:10 PM

This is what we know so far..

If you are comm, you can give orders to squad leaders. Squad leaders will then need to accept the command (Page Up), which will then pass the command onto the squad members.

Also, squad leaders can issue their own commands to the squad members as well.

For voice, the comm can ONLY speak to squad leaders. Squad leaders can either talk to the comm, or to squad members. Squad members can ONLY talk to other members of the squad. Players not in a squad cannot talk to anyone.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-12-2005, 10:19 PM

I really wish squad commanders could talk to other squad commanders.

iceman369 · 06-12-2005, 10:22 PM

that is a great setup because in order to issue a order you have to go through the chain of command. I can't wait for it to come out in 9 days.

Black_V!per · 06-12-2005, 11:27 PM

I thought Squad Leaders could speak to each other Wyz... Maybe not, but i remember hearing people that weren't in my squad talking to me via VoIP.

**Apophis** · 06-12-2005, 11:57 PM

I really wish squad leaders would set examples for their squads and pass the orders down to them. It gets REALLY frustrating trying to command when you get the response of "Well, I'm sniping, what do you want..."

Personally. It makes me want to get the admin tools enabled and configured so the kick-hammer of death can be used to remedy those types of problems.

**asch** · 06-13-2005, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

Personally. It makes me want to get the admin tools enabled and configured so the kick-hammer of death can be used to remedy those types of problems.

ditto.....

Zephyr · 06-13-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I really wish squad leaders would set examples for their squads and pass the orders down to them. It gets REALLY frustrating trying to command when you get the response of "Well, I'm sniping, what do you want..."

Personally. It makes me want to get the admin tools enabled and configured so the kick-hammer of death can be used to remedy those types of problems.

Quite sorry about that incident, I know it was a direct violation of my squads orders, but we did manage to save the hotel from a massive assault...I did what I thought was the right thing to do. I apologize if my language was harsh, I have a certain...flair to me when I'm commanding a squad. I figured it was not only in my squads interest, but that of the entire team to defend the hotel from assault. Sorry.
-Zephyr

**Apophis** · 06-13-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Quite sorry about that incident, I know it was a direct violation of my squads orders, but we did manage to save the hotel from a massive assault...I did what I thought was the right thing to do. I apologize if my language was harsh, I have a certain...flair to me when I'm commanding a squad. I figured it was not only in my squads interest, but that of the entire team to defend the hotel from assault. Sorry.
-Zephyr

That was YOU? Now i'm even more disappointed..

At that point in time I had **NO** interest in the hotel. I was watching wave upon wave of USMC walking through the other bases. My priority as commander was to STOP that movement. It was not in the teams interest to defend the hotel, it was in YOUR interest to defend the hotel. Not to mention you stayed on the damn roof the entire map and chose to disregard orders for the entire duration.

It was just a perfect example of "me-play" rather than team-play. In the future, those types of responses WILL be met with player kicks and bans. There is no way for a commander to effectively do his job with me-players taking their squads and doing what THEY want to for their own interests.

Zephyr · 06-13-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

That was YOU? Now i'm even more disappointed..

Ouch...you do know I would have never done what I did if I didnt think it was strongly the right thing to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

It was not in the teams interest to defend the hotel, it was in YOUR interest to defend the hotel.

I strongly disagree with that statement and am personally offended you would think that of someone like me. I care absolutely not for my score or my kill ratio, I am always the medic on the field if I can be because I want others to do well. Ask anyone who plays with me, I am totally selfless in any of my actions with my squad. I stayed on that hotel because my squad and I layed down at least 15 soldiers OURSELVES (with ground support doing their part) that were advancing on the hotel for the duration of the map. I understand you are commander, but I think you may have missed something very critical that was going on over there because you were preoccupied with a beachhead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

It was just a perfect example of "me-play" rather than team-play.

I resent that remark, every single second I spent up there was in the interest of controlling an advance that would have crippled the teams ability to fight the assault you were engaged in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

In the future, those types of responses WILL be met with player kicks and bans. There is no way for a commander to effectively do his job with me-players taking their squads and doing what THEY want to for their own interests.

Of course you should ban players who ignore orders for no particular reason. But my squad was actively engaged in something that I gauged to be of extreme importance that couldn't be left alone. I figured you noticed that since the commander view should have shown you the waves of soldiers attempting to reach the hotel, hence my response as you were telling my squad to assault the other side of the map. You were obviously preoccupied, as was I. We shouldn't even be arguing about this. Nothing I do is about my own interests ever, period. If I'm a squad leader and I reject an order I hope you would conclude that the reason for my disobedience is more than just "OMG I R TEH NUB KILLAR I DONT WANT TO LEAVE MA CAMPIN SPOT LOLOLOL" and definitelly has tactical depth.
-Zephyr

**Apophis** · 06-13-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I strongly disagree with that statement and am personally offended you would think that of someone like me. I care absolutely not for my score or my kill ratio, I am always the medic on the field if I can be because I want others to do well. Ask anyone who plays with me, I am totally selfless in any of my actions with my squad. I stayed on that hotel because my squad and I layed down at least 15 soldiers OURSELVES (with ground support doing their part) that were advancing on the hotel for the duration of the map. I understand you are commander, but I think you may have missed something very critical that was going on over there because you were preoccupied with a beachhead.

I resent that remark, every single second I spent up there was in the interest of controlling an advance that would have crippled the teams ability to fight the assault you were engaged in.

Of course you should ban players who ignore orders for no particular reason. But my squad was actively engaged in something that I gauged to be of extreme importance that couldn't be left alone. I figured you noticed that since the commander view should have shown you the waves of soldiers attempting to reach the hotel, hence my response as you were telling my squad to assault the other side of the map. You were obviously preoccupied, as was I. We shouldn't even be arguing about this. Nothing I do is about my own interests ever, period. If I'm a squad leader and I reject an order I hope you would conclude that the reason for my disobedience is more than just "OMG I R TEH NUB KILLAR I DONT WANT TO LEAVE MA CAMPIN SPOT LOLOLOL" and definitelly has tactical depth.

I *WAS* aware of what was happening over there and that there were a lot of USMC troops assaulting the hotel region. My concern was with stopping their ability to move into that area from the beach head. You had control of the largest formed squad with the right squad makeup to push on the beachhead and fight back the assault while I had two smaller teams moving in from different directions to secure the hotel AFTER the beach head had been secured.

The point remains. How does a commander actually achieve the objectives and plans they are working on if squads refuse to complete the orders they are assigned?

I was not preoccupied at all. In fact, the only thing that was preoccupying me was trying to get the smaller, less organized, teams to pick up the slack where your squad was failing.

You can resent the fact that you were playing towards your own objectives if you like. But the fact that you repeatedly refused command orders in lieu of what you wanted to do speaks for itself. It also greatly depreciates any confidence that commanders will have in you for the future.

**CingularDuality** · 06-13-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

The point remains. How does a commander actually achieve the objectives and plans they are working on if squads refuse to complete the orders they are assigned?

I was not preoccupied at all. In fact, the only thing that was preoccupying me was trying to get the smaller, less organized, teams to pick up the slack where your squad was failing.

You can resent the fact that you were playing towards your own objectives if you like. But the fact that you repeatedly refused command orders in lieu of what you wanted to do speaks for itself. It also greatly depreciates any confidence that commanders will have in you for the future.

Man... This game is going to be great. In the Marines, there was nothing better than popping some popcorn and watching two leaders argue over whether the subordinate should do something with his squad or not.

The chain of command exists for a reason... Then again, so does free will...

This will be interesting. I don't think anyone should be kicked/banned for disobeying orders, though. Squabbles like this are going to come up. Some squad leaders are going to disobey the com, some will "get around" to following orders, and some are going to say "Aye, aye, sir" and get things done most rickey tick. I think this just adds to the realism.

If a leader consistently screws up, members will know not to join his squad. He'll be shunned. A social pariah. A virtual leper.

If a leader disobeys when he sees things that the com might not, he might be embraced by the masses and coms. He'll be sought after as a leader. Small unit leadership was successful because of this. Know the commander's intent and use your own discretion on how to accomplish the mission.

Damn this is going to be fun...

**Wyzcrak** · 06-13-2005, 12:27 PM

Do what your boss tells you to do.

Works by day.

Works by night.

Tell your boss he's full of crap (note: works better by night than by day), but do what he tells you to do.

**Pokerface** · 06-13-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

You can resent the fact that you were playing towards your own objectives if you like. But the fact that you repeatedly refused command orders in lieu of what you wanted to do speaks for itself. It also greatly depreciates any confidence that commanders will have in you for the future.

Commanding NS has taught me the following.

The comm thinks he knows everything, but can't see the trees for the forest.
The marine thinks he knows his tree, but his grasp of the forest is often questionable.
If the troops aren't moving like the comm tells them to, the comm's viewpoint isn't obvious enough to the rank and file.

This isn't a matter of disrespect. It's a matter of trust and communication. As a commander, you don't need to explain every detail like you would to a third-grader off the short bus, but you need to be able to snap marines out of the tunnel-vision that is the FPS field of view.

**TG_JBRanger** · 06-13-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Commanding NS has taught me the following.

The comm thinks he knows everything, but can't see the trees for the forest.
The marine thinks he knows his tree, but his grasp of the forest is often questionable.
If the troops aren't moving like the comm tells them to, the comm's viewpoint isn't obvious enough to the rank and file.

This isn't a matter of disrespect. It's a matter of trust and communication. As a commander, you don't need to explain every detail like you would to a third-grader off the short bus, but you need to be able to snap marines out of the tunnel-vision that is the FPS field of view.

Right on brother!

**Twisted_Firestarter** · 06-13-2005, 02:21 PM

All your rationalizations are moot Zephyr: The commander has operational knowledge of the situation that you do not. So, it's just good sense to follow his lead. And, if that isn't enough of a reason here's another: he's your commander.

"...Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Ouch...you do know I would have never done what I did if I didnt think it was strongly the right thing to do?

I strongly disagree with that statement and am personally offended you would think that of someone like me. I care absolutely not for my score or my kill ratio, I am always the medic on the field if I can be because I want others to do well. Ask anyone who plays with me, I am totally selfless in any of my actions with my squad. I stayed on that hotel because my squad and I layed down at least 15 soldiers OURSELVES (with ground support doing their part) that were advancing on the hotel for the duration of the map. I understand you are commander, but I think you may have missed something very critical that was going on over there because you were preoccupied with a beachhead.
I resent that remark, every single second I spent up there was in the interest of controlling an advance that would have crippled the teams ability to fight the assault you were engaged in.

Of course you should ban players who ignore orders for no particular reason. But my squad was actively engaged in something that I gauged to be of extreme importance that couldn't be left alone. I figured you noticed that since the commander view should have shown you the waves of soldiers attempting to reach the hotel, hence my response as you were telling my squad to assault the other side of the map. You were obviously preoccupied, as was I. We shouldn't even be arguing about this. Nothing I do is about my own interests ever, period. If I'm a squad leader and I reject an order I hope you would conclude that the reason for my disobedience is more than just "OMG I R TEH NUB KILLAR I DONT WANT TO LEAVE MA CAMPIN SPOT LOLOLOL" and definitelly has tactical depth.
-Zephyr

06-12-2005, 10:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tempus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Age: 38 Posts: 8,272	Command, orders, and communication This is what we know so far.. If you are comm, you can give orders to squad leaders. Squad leaders will then need to accept the command (Page Up), which will then pass the command onto the squad members. Also, squad leaders can issue their own commands to the squad members as well. For voice, the comm can ONLY speak to squad leaders. Squad leaders can either talk to the comm, or to squad members. Squad members can ONLY talk to other members of the squad. Players not in a squad cannot talk to anyone. __________________ Battlefield 2/2142 Game Officer Contact me with server/player/admin issues. -- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway. FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER. 3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

06-12-2005, 10:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,155	Re: Command, orders, and communication I really wish squad commanders could talk to other squad commanders. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

06-12-2005, 10:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
iceman369 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: MA Posts: 76	Re: Command, orders, and communication that is a great setup because in order to issue a order you have to go through the chain of command. I can't wait for it to come out in 9 days.

06-12-2005, 11:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
Black_V!per Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kingman AZ. Age: 21 Posts: 1,445	Re: Command, orders, and communication I thought Squad Leaders could speak to each other Wyz... Maybe not, but i remember hearing people that weren't in my squad talking to me via VoIP. __________________ Start counting, when you reach infinity tell me. If you can read this you've got to much time on your hands.

06-12-2005, 11:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 36 Posts: 9,030	Re: Command, orders, and communication I really wish squad leaders would set examples for their squads and pass the orders down to them. It gets REALLY frustrating trying to command when you get the response of "Well, I'm sniping, what do you want..." Personally. It makes me want to get the admin tools enabled and configured so the kick-hammer of death can be used to remedy those types of problems. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

06-13-2005, 12:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,155	Re: Command, orders, and communication Do what your boss tells you to do. Works by day. Works by night. Tell your boss he's full of crap (note: works better by night than by day), but do what he tells you to do. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

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