Tempus

I vaguely asked this elsewhere, but it will probably get lost.

I know that each death results in a lost ticket. I know that some maps cause teams to lose tickets if they have fewer than half the flags.

But not all maps are like that. Do you guys know which maps do and do not care about the number of flags owned when it comes to reducing tickets?

Oilfields and Clean Sweep are two that seem to be completely unaffected by the number of flags held. What are the situations with the other maps?

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Pokerface

When the map is loading, it tells you if and how ticket drain occurs. Some say "Control over half the points", some say "Gotta catch 'em all!"

In no instance does the drain seem particularly speedy.

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Lagomorph

Every time I die my team loses a ticket?

uh...eep 0_o

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=Sarc=

Unless a medic revives you then the ticket is given back.

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SmokingTarpan

If a medic revives you, the ticket loss is prevented.

edit: Down with Sarc!

Lagomorph

Phew, I feel better about my habitual medicness then. =P

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Tempus

So, on the maps where controlling half the spawns are not important, what is the point of holding flags? It would seem best to just sit on a couple of flags and wait for the enemy to come to you. No objective other than to kill as many as possible.

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-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.

FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

lleytonhewitt

Tempus,

My thinking follows your exactly. On maps where you must control all flags to cause ticket drain, it may be to one's advantage to camp a few strategic spots and simply defend them. These maps are more like death match in that an overall strategy is not really required: simply a high body count will result in victory for your side.

The opposite argument suggests that the more flags one hold, the more access one has to vehicles, etc, and thus can hit other points from different directions as well. In addition, if there are only 1-2 spawn points, the enemy bunches up nicely for artillery strikes. Unfortunately, this all is not a very compelling argument for me becuase the squad system allows spawns nearly anywhere. I think the flag capture system needs to be revamped slightly to give more reward for flag captures in a strategic sense, rather than the sole personal scoreboard incentive that it provides now.

asch

I do find that the maps where ALL flags are required do lead to deathmatches... just waiting for the time to lapse.

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lleytonhewitt

Consider also that in modern warfare, strategic objectives ("flags") are often much more important to accomplish rather than the mere number of enemy troops killed. In world War 2 on the Western front, the US side frequently suffered more casualties than the germans in any engagement, at the cost of accomplishing its strategic objectives. Ditto for the War in the Pacific.

The way things stand now, ther eis very little "strategic" incentive to capture flag points. One way to fix may be to greatly increase respawn times of vehicles at uncapturable bases. THis would reduce access to vehicles unless additional flags are captured. Alternatively, place aircraft not at initial spawns but at new locations that must be captured and defended. Since everyone loves flying so much, this would at least greatly increase the value of those locations.

As things stand now, if one flag is defended too greatly, players just say, "no problem, let's just go to another." In real battles, where a strategic or tactical position MUST be captured at all costs, soldiers would have no such luxury to decide where they go.

human_wave

I'd like to see something like a one-time gain of 10 points for taking a spawn point and a penalty of 10 for losing one. Could even have different values, maybe you get 20 for that juicy airfield.

It'd me make me feel better about my lack of skills killing whatever team I'm on, since I often have a pretty bad ratio but quite a few caps/assists. And assuaging my ego is really what we should be all about here.

Pokerface

Interesting idea, wave...

(and when I say something like "interesting" with regards to a BF2 change, it's a good thing )

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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

Karkianman101

Maybe on catch 'em all maps have the respawn time reduce depending on the number of flags you control. If the enemy decides to hole up in one base, every time you kill someone they are out for 20 seconds, while when you die you are out for only 10.

Also, you could have on all maps the number of flags controlled affect the recharge time for supply crates.

human_wave

Actually, now that I think about it, not sure a points-for-capture system would work all that well. Most of the flags change hands a bunch of times per game, and even if you hold it for a while, one capture at the end could totally negate it. What we need is a system where you get points(or the enemy loses points) based on holding a flag as a function of time...Oh wait.

I guess we have that, just amp up the rate.

FriedFish

You don't want the ticket bleed to be too bad because then a losing team wouldn't be able to come back.