We hold these truths to be self evident...

jeffreyLebowski · 07-07-2005, 12:22 PM

that KUBRA DAM sucks.

i was wondering what everyone else's opinion of this map is. every time i play this map (especially the 64 player version), it seems like everyone on the server complains about how awful it is. i'd have to agree. i led a great squad and had an excellent commander last night on this map, and it was still a painful experience. the design is awful, i feel like i'm playing EA Sports Cross Country Runner 2005. every time it comes up in the rotation nowadays i almost always reach for the escape key. i'm not usually one to whine, but i just had to rant about this map. am i crazy? or is this map actually as terrible as i think it is?

AntiVisual · 07-07-2005, 12:25 PM

It is one of the worst developed maps I have ever played on an online FPS if that tells you anything.

**asch** · 07-07-2005, 12:38 PM

I actually like this map. It makes the commander think about which squads to position where so they can cover multiple flags. The routes to each flag are not direct so you can easily defend several flags.... except for those damn helos.

**Apophis** · 07-07-2005, 12:40 PM

I'm with asch.. I really like this map! The terrain is really tough and requires a lot of thought in how to mount your defenses. It also requires better planning in the utilization of your AA assets to cover larger areas of the map rather than just a single flag.

Trooper · 07-07-2005, 12:41 PM

i like it cuase the black hawk can do alot of damage in a little area...you have to watch the ridges for enemy troops and tanks...

Seraosha · 07-07-2005, 01:00 PM

I like this map.

It uses terrain and limited access routes to present an airpower/armor friendly map.
Lone infantry on foot has a hell of a time getting from point A to point B, with many elevation changes, danger areas, and sniper spots to worry about. Not to mention getting run over by friendly/enemy vehicles on the roads.

Kind of like combat in a built-up urban area, with many access points..you know, a dam under construction. I've had a good time using leap-frog tactics going along roads with APC's, two APC's, APC/Tank, Heavy Jeeps, etc. Take a CP, dig in, lay out mines and get some AT guys looking at the sky for the inevitible helicopter attack.
Rinse/repeat. Blowing bridges denies some of the more common approaches, as well as a commander keeping an eye on enemy concentrations vulnerable to Arty.

As long as a "defensive/attrition on tickets" strategy is used, it's a win.

Keeping the SpecOp off the arty long enough for it to be put to good use is tough, as no one really wants to babysit the MEC base, but other than that I think the pipes, semi-underground bunkers/cp's and jumps off into infinity make it one of the more tactically interesting maps.

TG_Rizzo · 07-07-2005, 01:38 PM

It's great when you have a ride.

It sucks when you don't.

I'll tell ya, though, some of the best firefights I've been in so far have been over the construction building flag near the top of the damn. I can sit there for an hour and have a ball--just don't send me anywhere on foot. :P

Cur · 07-07-2005, 01:50 PM

I totally agree with Rizzo... plus those hills are torture on the armor, so slow, might as well put a HUGE red bullseye on anything not a buggy.

Definitely a love (when having a ride) / hate (on foot) map.

SmokingTarpan · 07-07-2005, 02:42 PM

When played correctly, the map is a lot of fun. Incorrectly, it's gutter trash.

One major fault of the map is that the MEC has no UCB, and the only way to make them tick down is to control all the flags (which means that the game is pretty much over anyway). Design flaw.

tau_neutrino · 07-07-2005, 02:58 PM

I hate this map. Too many vehicles, not enough infantry interaction.

**Rincewind** · 07-07-2005, 03:07 PM

I like this map; when I'm in an F-15 or SU-xx. This has to be one of the more fun maps for the pilot. There are a lot of AA to keep you on your toes, dog fights, flying through the dam, taking out a full squad with the machine gun.... Good fun. All this map needs is an A-10.

**asch** · 07-07-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tau_neutrino

I hate this map. Too many vehicles, not enough infantry interaction.

Good defense tactics can force infantry battles. Bridges can be taken out and the other narrow routes can be mined. Once those are setup you'll see helos coming in. If a squad is defending a flag, bridges blown and roadways mined, a few AT missiles can cripple a helo. The enemy is then forced to walk / parachute in.

**asch** · 07-07-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

One major fault of the map is that the MEC has no UCB, and the only way to make them tick down is to control all the flags (which means that the game is pretty much over anyway). Design flaw.

Yeah, probably my only gripe with this map. There seems to be a few maps that require all points and those are a pain.

Lionel-Richie · 07-07-2005, 03:30 PM

I've never won this as MEC =(

Raub · 07-07-2005, 03:44 PM

worst map evar.

I really can't think of anything good to say about it....so I won't say anything at all.

07-07-2005, 12:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
jeffreyLebowski Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Sunshine State Posts: 13	We hold these truths to be self evident... that KUBRA DAM sucks. i was wondering what everyone else's opinion of this map is. every time i play this map (especially the 64 player version), it seems like everyone on the server complains about how awful it is. i'd have to agree. i led a great squad and had an excellent commander last night on this map, and it was still a painful experience. the design is awful, i feel like i'm playing EA Sports Cross Country Runner 2005. every time it comes up in the rotation nowadays i almost always reach for the escape key. i'm not usually one to whine, but i just had to rant about this map. am i crazy? or is this map actually as terrible as i think it is? Last edited by jeffreyLebowski; 07-07-2005 at 01:54 PM.

07-07-2005, 12:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
AntiVisual Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 494	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... It is one of the worst developed maps I have ever played on an online FPS if that tells you anything.

07-07-2005, 12:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
asch Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Mill, SC Age: 33 Posts: 10,096	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I actually like this map. It makes the commander think about which squads to position where so they can cover multiple flags. The routes to each flag are not direct so you can easily defend several flags.... except for those damn helos. __________________ \| My Maps Fear the Frog! \| Kill the Frog! \| An Inconvenient Truth

07-07-2005, 12:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 36 Posts: 9,030	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I'm with asch.. I really like this map! The terrain is really tough and requires a lot of thought in how to mount your defenses. It also requires better planning in the utilization of your AA assets to cover larger areas of the map rather than just a single flag. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

07-07-2005, 12:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 26 Posts: 9,022	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... i like it cuase the black hawk can do alot of damage in a little area...you have to watch the ridges for enemy troops and tanks... __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

07-07-2005, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Seraosha Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 62	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I like this map. It uses terrain and limited access routes to present an airpower/armor friendly map. Lone infantry on foot has a hell of a time getting from point A to point B, with many elevation changes, danger areas, and sniper spots to worry about. Not to mention getting run over by friendly/enemy vehicles on the roads. Kind of like combat in a built-up urban area, with many access points..you know, a dam under construction. I've had a good time using leap-frog tactics going along roads with APC's, two APC's, APC/Tank, Heavy Jeeps, etc. Take a CP, dig in, lay out mines and get some AT guys looking at the sky for the inevitible helicopter attack. Rinse/repeat. Blowing bridges denies some of the more common approaches, as well as a commander keeping an eye on enemy concentrations vulnerable to Arty. As long as a "defensive/attrition on tickets" strategy is used, it's a win. Keeping the SpecOp off the arty long enough for it to be put to good use is tough, as no one really wants to babysit the MEC base, but other than that I think the pipes, semi-underground bunkers/cp's and jumps off into infinity make it one of the more tactically interesting maps. __________________

07-07-2005, 01:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
TG_Rizzo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rhode Island, USA Posts: 401	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... It's great when you have a ride. It sucks when you don't. I'll tell ya, though, some of the best firefights I've been in so far have been over the construction building flag near the top of the damn. I can sit there for an hour and have a ball--just don't send me anywhere on foot. :P Last edited by TG_Rizzo; 07-07-2005 at 03:21 PM.

07-07-2005, 01:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cur Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 38 Posts: 146	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I totally agree with Rizzo... plus those hills are torture on the armor, so slow, might as well put a HUGE red bullseye on anything not a buggy. Definitely a love (when having a ride) / hate (on foot) map.

07-07-2005, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
SmokingTarpan Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,472	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... When played correctly, the map is a lot of fun. Incorrectly, it's gutter trash. One major fault of the map is that the MEC has no UCB, and the only way to make them tick down is to control all the flags (which means that the game is pretty much over anyway). Design flaw.

07-07-2005, 02:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
tau_neutrino Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Age: 26 Posts: 1,108	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I hate this map. Too many vehicles, not enough infantry interaction.

07-07-2005, 03:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rincewind Join Date: May 2005 Location: Casting useless spells in Oklahoma. Age: 27 Posts: 3,046	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I like this map; when I'm in an F-15 or SU-xx. This has to be one of the more fun maps for the pilot. There are a lot of AA to keep you on your toes, dog fights, flying through the dam, taking out a full squad with the machine gun.... Good fun. All this map needs is an A-10. __________________ ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~ No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are. My Rig

07-07-2005, 03:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lionel-Richie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: TN Posts: 71	Re: We hold these truths to be self evident... I've never won this as MEC =( __________________ And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

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