B-Wise

I say fact, and this is after being in a blackhawk squad last night that was nearly invincible. If you have 2 engineer's, a medic, a spec op, and anything else, you will dominate almost any map. As fun as it was to score a crap load of points I found myself thinking "this is to easy".

I know that there are tactics to take down a good BH squad, but I still say that the BH is overpowered when it takes 2-3 AT rounds to take one down....helicopters are not tanks.

Of course this is just an opinion, and I may be wrong.

Telorn

I agree. A squad that uses a blackhawk as a spawn point and a gunship is overpowered.

If this is done, the SL should not be able to be the pilot. At least then the opposition has some chance of taking the squad leader out and breaking the spawn point.

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Telorn

Pokerface

I disagree. 6 squad members + 1 vehicle should require nothing less than extraordinary effort to bring down.

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RandomGuy

I remember the first time I switched to the anti-tank kit to deal with a chopper (not a blackhawk). After a few misses I nailed that sucker right in the tail rotor. I was feeling pretty good about the chopper's imminent doom, but... nothing happened. The chopper didn't even start smoking. You won't see me playing with the anti-tank kit much any more.

Telorn

So 6 members in an APC should be difficult to take down, right?

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Telorn

TG_Rizzo

The BH in and of itself is not overpowered. WHat makes it overpowered is having two engies onboard keeping it in the field and able to hover and destroy flag defense crews over and over and over and over....

Pokerface

Six people shooting at you and your stuff should be difficult to take down, yes.

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Telorn

So true

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Telorn

Telorn

A full APC is simple to take down. 2 ATs in the butt and it's all over. Or a 'single' mine. A full BH improperly used with engineers makes no feasible tactic possible.

What can take a BH down in 2 or even a single shot? Nothing. That is why the APC is balanced and the BH, misused, is not.

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Telorn

TG_Rizzo

When a BH wipes out the same squad six times straight, that's actually 24 soldiers. 24 soldiers should be enough to bring down a single BH or at least be able to do enough damage to the thing so that the pilot needs to fly back to base for repairs.

Unfortunately, with a pair of engies onboard, the BH is able to hover endlessly over a flag and repeatedly mince the same squad over and over with near impunity because the ground squad is usually unable to muster and coordinate and do enough damage QUICKLY enough to bring it down before the engies can repair it. This is the issue.

Syn

and if they do die, they respawn on the SL 10 seconds later and get back to fixing.

Balance could be easily attained if flying vehicles were exempt from spawn-on-SL functionality. I think any lost crew should have to be picked up again, especially given the speed of aircraft, picking up a new load of BH crew would only take a minute.

Or, perhaps what we need is an anti-air troop with a lock-on seekable SA missle.

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|TG|Syn - [defense] :row__572:

CymBa

Personally, I say FICTION.

Granted the mini-guns are a very powerful and may need to be turned down a TINY bit, or at least have the MEC/PLA ones turned up. But that doesn't mean its necessarily overpowered. The balancing nature for the miniguns on the BH is the fact that it can't take many hits so a skillful pilot has to maneouvre the helo to keep it out of harms way. These evasive actions reduces the effectiveness of the miniguns thus making them less powerful in practical use.


And Telorn, I disagree with you also, the problem is not the SL spawn on the BlackHawk either. That's a game mechanic which is consistent everywhere in the game. Its a game rule and to ban it for one vehicle would be breaking the games own rule.

If you look carefully, all the game rules are applied globally. SL spawns works for all instances as it should, same thing with Engineer/Medic/Support Aura's etc , they all are applied to all vehicles and instances consistently.

However one rule that is seemingly broken or is inconsistent is the one that causes the BH to be a problem; and that's because it negates the factor that balances the power of the miniguns and that is IN-AIR repair. With that ability the pilot doesn't have to evade and therefore the mini-guns can focus on anything that moves. THAT's the problem, not the BH itself.

Why I say its broken/inconsistent is that it only works on the cars, and the xport helo's, so why not APC's, tanks, buggies and the other choppers etc as well? I'm sure we would all agree that the implementation, if it was intentional, is rather shoddy, It only seems to work in certain positions AND you have to "look" at the vehicle in a certain way to get it to work and it doesn't even seem to be "working" properly all the time either. All these things suggest it wasn't intentional, and is a broken rule.

The reason we're not complaining about the MEC/PLA choppers as well is because the guns on them are crap.

I was playing a Mashtuur map recently and the MEC were using it very well. They were going around capping flags and transporting troops. I'm not absolutely sure but I think they were using engineers as well because I hit it with a 2 AT rounds and it didn't die. KUDO's to that team for trying to make use of the chopper. But I was USMC
that night and there were times I was under direct fire from that chopper.. I could actually see them shooting at me and the squad and could see the bullets hitting the ground around us. Sure I might have gotten hit but the ROF was so low that I could escape. THAT's the difference between it and the BH. Once a BH gunner starts firing in ur location u're usually dead, instantly, and ANY self-respecting BH Gunner will tell you that. If he aims at you and fires, you die almost INSTANTLY. There's no bullet dodging with the BH. But hey that's FINE, its what makes each chopper unique so I'm all for it and the same thing happens with Mi-28's cannon too.However the MI-28 cannon is BALANCED by the fact that the pilot has to EVADE as well, HE doesn't have in-air repair. Not so with the BH since it can just sit there and take it all or at least last a LOT longer before it has to go. Its the combination of In-Air Repair AND BlackHawk Miniguns that's making it seem overpowered, with any other vehicle its not that big of a deal.

And yes, we know, its in the Prima Guide and yes its been mentioned by other EA testers. So what? These are the same testers that released the game with the attrocious Server BROWSER and all the other bugs that the game was released with. EA has biggers issues to deal with rather than balance out one minor bug to do with balance, which they most likely didn't realise was going to be SUCH a problem. I'm almost willing to bet that when they start dealign with balance issues that will be one of the first things to be fixed. Because its breaking their own rules.

TG_Rizzo

Let's look at this from a different angle...

I'd really like to see the BH in more of a "support" role. Dropping off troops and supporting them for a minute before going back for more troops. It's a transport craft, after all, not a perpetual attack platform.

Think of Platoon! Think of We Were Soldiers! Think of Black Hawk Down! And then chant with me, "Transport...transport...transport...transport ..."

Edit: oops, meant to add.

Here's an idea. How about we start utilizing it as a transport? Let's say we have a squad called "BHTransport". It's 3 guys: 1 pilot and 2 gunners. All they do is transport other squads to their destination. "Get in!" Yeah, it's two trips for a full squad but the BH flies, you see, and it can get a squad to where it's going in two trips faster than a squad can get anywhere on foot or, in many cases, in vehicles.

DrJOnes666

Clearly overpowered.
When all you do in the game is devote time to counter the BH, this clearly means the unit is overpowered...

DrJOnes666

|TG| B

I would think of assigning a jet pilot to make sure that the blackhawks are always displayed even if it mean suiciding.. that will teach em.