Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot.

**CymBa** · 07-13-2005, 06:38 PM

A lot of people have said recently that BF2 Anti-Air needs beefing up. Some say its completely useless against air and should be more accurate.
For the last couple days I've been taking time out to use the various forms of AA in the game including fixed AA and mobile AA.
While I agree that, for something supposedly this high-tech, they seem wholefully inaccurate, I have at times been able to shoot down helo's and very occasionally jets. I remember one game on Oman I manned the AA exclusively and I ended up with 30-40 kills off AA alone, downing BH's and Cobras with the ocassional F-35 for good measure. I would estimate my KILL rate was around 30-40% while my HIT rate was around 66%. Don't ask me my technique because I still haven't quite nailed that down yet. MOBILE AA tho is on a whole different level tho. Mobile AA is MEAN , my KILL rate for mobile AA is sometimes close to 60-70%! Man I love those machines.

As some of you might already know, I'm a hardcore chopper pilot myself so it has given me what I feel is a unique perspective on the whole affair. My overall view is that AA in the game is fine as it is. My MAIN reason for saying this is that , sure we'd all love to shoot down a jet or helo each time we aim for it, but I've figured out why AA is so inaccurate. If everytime someone on the ground pointed a SAM at us we would die then it would make no sense to fly at all. Especially in maps like Gulf of Oman where multiple sites can have a lock.

But I can tell you this, even with AA that inaccurate, we pilots still can't afford to ignore it. Once we hear that lock on sound we have to do SOMETHING, even if its just to drop flares and evade. However in a lot of cases that's enough. That klaxon blaring is telling us that SOMEONE is looking at us with a potentially big stick and there's a chance that it might hit us. I've found that 1 hit from a missile is usually enough to get the helo to head back to base, usually because the pilot knows the next one will kill him. So in this case the AA acts as a deterrant and modifies the behaviour of the pilot which is what us on the ground pounders really want anywayz.

When it comes to BH's being repaired.. I've found that 2 direct hits from AA one right after another is enought to kill them. However getting those consecutive hits isn't easy.

Mobile AA tho is a beast. Not only do u have twice as many missiles, the ability to reposition and actually STALK air so they have to spend a LARGE amount of time trying to find you but you also have a gun that can kill passengers (ie engineers) and finish them off if ur missiles are reloading. Any helo pilot will tell you its a PAIN flying in Kubra Dam when someones manning the mobile AA. You have a hard time finding them and they can lock onto u the minute u come over the dam. That damn Klaxon going off in ur ear is the most annoying thing and u can't really afford to ignore it because it WILL kill you.

In a recent game on Daqing Oilfields we were losing to the usual BH flag capping stuff. My teammate and I decided to go for 2 Mobile AA and we started to stalk those helo's. Nearly everytime I saw a BH it went down in flames. Same went for the Attack Helo. They had to change their tactics, sneak around a lot more but they still took huge losses. The Attack Helo even started to try and Cover the BH but we still shot them both down. It got to the point where I'd sometimes look at the USMC base and see both helo's on the pad doing nothing for extended periods. Because of our action we actually clawed our way back from a nearly 150 point deficit to win the game by 100+ tickets. My apologies to Apocalypse and his BH squad as well as Ludlow

In conclusion all I'm saying is that AA as it is in-game is fine. If it was any more accurate it'd take the joy out of flying and even if you don't kill ur target its still a very good deterrant. But with proper use it can change the course of a game. Oh, and MOBILE AA is VICIOUS.

Black_V!per · 07-13-2005, 06:54 PM

Wow thats a detailed report, ive got to try out the mobil AA, sounds like fun!

**Apophis** · 07-13-2005, 06:58 PM

I have had relatively good luck with the AA. Here are some of the tricks that seem to work for me. YMMV:

Get a lock on an aircraft and wait for them to dispense flares. After they have dispensed their flares, let loose and fire the two AA rockets.

When an aircraft is approaching you, try and wait until they have passed over and you have a good view of the rear of the craft before firing. The rockets seem to hold their targets better if you're firing at their exhaust.

If you're dealing with an aircraft a long distance away and they are not advancing on your position or threatening you in any way, just keep that lock and keep the rockets firing. If they are assaulting another flag, the diversion and worry you're creating in the mind of the pilot is a serious asset to the flag defenders. You may not take them down, but if you can get them to back off on the flag they are attacking it may be just as good.

Mishkan · 07-13-2005, 07:02 PM

Good post Cymba,

also if you can get a chopper inbound just lock onto them until they lose their flairs and they'll probably keep heading towards you. Try and keep a visual lock until then and the go ahead and lock on and blow them away.

burble · 07-13-2005, 07:05 PM

the problem is simply that a half-decent fighter pilot, or a GOOD chopper pilot, can always evade AA missiles.

i'm a **** pilot, and the only way i ever get taken down in a jet is if another aircraft is chasing me. all i ever do for missile locks (again, unless i know someone's tailing me) is roll 90* in one direction, pull all the way back on the stick, and hit the afterburners. no flares required, the missile(s) always lose me.

**peardog** · 07-13-2005, 07:06 PM

I have to say that there are times I have seen Jet pilot's OWN a map... Some of them are getting VERY good..and they just wipe out a base amd move onto the next target...
I would like a shoulder held SAM ..just to Frustrate the Pilots a bit more... I like to frustrate the fly boys! (Specially since I can't fly 20 ft. without hitting the ground upside down!!)

Black_V!per · 07-13-2005, 07:10 PM

Ya anti-tank should be anti-vehicle, one/two shoulder stinger/sam and same amount anti tank as is now, like DC.

Ski-Racer · 07-13-2005, 07:21 PM

There are 3 issues...

1. The jets can enter and exit your effective range before you can lock on through the chaff.

2. Most AA has a dead-spot that is about a 15 degree cone directly above the AA.

3. Either hit detection is bad or the aircraft can take too much punishment before going down. If I hit a blackhawk when shooting the main cannon of a tank, the blackhawk should not go down, it should vaporize.

Godfrey · 07-13-2005, 07:25 PM

The mobile AA is fearsome, it is accurate and delivers sever damage. But really that is it, small arms fire can hurt as well as the rare AT round. A simple BH or attack chopper will make short work of the squad shooting at them tho. But the mounted stinger AA is in my opinion Crap. I do not expect it to take down every aircraft i see, but I would like to see it hit more than 50% of my targets. Maybe it does hit, and I just do not see it. Once again I am not looking for the magic bullet, but rather a deterant to aircraft.

Kojio · 07-13-2005, 08:25 PM

There is a weapon-switching feature in BF:2 that, sadly, is completely wasted on being used solely for the ranking system.

This game supports one class choosing a multitude of different weapons to spawn with. In order to incorporate infantry AA into this game, all you need to do is create a mod that includes a shoulder-mounter STINGER as an unlockable weapon for the Anti-Tank class. Then on the spawn screen you can choose between two weapons, an AT weapon and an AA weapon.

THat would be perfect, as long as the AA weapon did feck-all damage to tanks.

Ludlow · 07-13-2005, 08:36 PM

Cymba!
You killed me alot that round.

I can't do much with AA as most of the time I go up against really good bomber pilots who hit their mark everytime. I can take down most chopper pilots easily though. The thing that usually works for me is to target the enemy chopper and hold lock there till they blow flares, then pop of 2 rounds and get the hell out of there...

Anyway, BAD CYMBA!

-Lud

SmokingTarpan · 07-13-2005, 11:30 PM

All I know is that I have, multiple times, fired mounted AA at a nearby stationary/moving in a straight line away from me target that didn't drop chaff/flares, and got to watch the rockets sail right past. Other times I have watched pilots execute a slow, small turn at the beginning of a lock and evade completely.

The rockets are supposed to have lock-on capabilties; as in following their target. I understand they won't be able to follow a last-minute 90-degree turn, but I'm not even seeing them follow a slow-moving or stationary target. From what I've seen, they're acting like fire and forget rockets. I've downed more APC's with the AA rockets than I have aircraft.

pudd9 · 07-14-2005, 12:32 AM

i think the AT/AA combo would be fantastic... as the machine gun in AT is a bucket of cr@p!

**CymBa** · 07-14-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burble

the problem is simply that a half-decent fighter pilot, or a GOOD chopper pilot, can always evade AA missiles.

i'm a **** pilot, and the only way i ever get taken down in a jet is if another aircraft is chasing me. all i ever do for missile locks (again, unless i know someone's tailing me) is roll 90* in one direction, pull all the way back on the stick, and hit the afterburners. no flares required, the missile(s) always lose me.

Yeah I have no luck taking out Jets with Mobile AA, strangely enough, the fixed emplacements seem to lock on faster than the mobile AA. So I have killed a few jets with them.

Arf · 07-14-2005, 01:29 AM

I can't hit anything with the missles from the Stingers, Planes, or mobile AA. I can get the occasional hit on a helicopter but I actually do better with the AT kit.

Any pointers on how to use the AA missles would be greatly appreciated.

07-13-2005, 06:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
CymBa Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Age: 31 Posts: 220	Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. A lot of people have said recently that BF2 Anti-Air needs beefing up. Some say its completely useless against air and should be more accurate. For the last couple days I've been taking time out to use the various forms of AA in the game including fixed AA and mobile AA. While I agree that, for something supposedly this high-tech, they seem wholefully inaccurate, I have at times been able to shoot down helo's and very occasionally jets. I remember one game on Oman I manned the AA exclusively and I ended up with 30-40 kills off AA alone, downing BH's and Cobras with the ocassional F-35 for good measure. I would estimate my KILL rate was around 30-40% while my HIT rate was around 66%. Don't ask me my technique because I still haven't quite nailed that down yet. MOBILE AA tho is on a whole different level tho. Mobile AA is MEAN , my KILL rate for mobile AA is sometimes close to 60-70%! Man I love those machines. As some of you might already know, I'm a hardcore chopper pilot myself so it has given me what I feel is a unique perspective on the whole affair. My overall view is that AA in the game is fine as it is. My MAIN reason for saying this is that , sure we'd all love to shoot down a jet or helo each time we aim for it, but I've figured out why AA is so inaccurate. If everytime someone on the ground pointed a SAM at us we would die then it would make no sense to fly at all. Especially in maps like Gulf of Oman where multiple sites can have a lock. But I can tell you this, even with AA that inaccurate, we pilots still can't afford to ignore it. Once we hear that lock on sound we have to do SOMETHING, even if its just to drop flares and evade. However in a lot of cases that's enough. That klaxon blaring is telling us that SOMEONE is looking at us with a potentially big stick and there's a chance that it might hit us. I've found that 1 hit from a missile is usually enough to get the helo to head back to base, usually because the pilot knows the next one will kill him. So in this case the AA acts as a deterrant and modifies the behaviour of the pilot which is what us on the ground pounders really want anywayz. When it comes to BH's being repaired.. I've found that 2 direct hits from AA one right after another is enought to kill them. However getting those consecutive hits isn't easy. Mobile AA tho is a beast. Not only do u have twice as many missiles, the ability to reposition and actually STALK air so they have to spend a LARGE amount of time trying to find you but you also have a gun that can kill passengers (ie engineers) and finish them off if ur missiles are reloading. Any helo pilot will tell you its a PAIN flying in Kubra Dam when someones manning the mobile AA. You have a hard time finding them and they can lock onto u the minute u come over the dam. That damn Klaxon going off in ur ear is the most annoying thing and u can't really afford to ignore it because it WILL kill you. In a recent game on Daqing Oilfields we were losing to the usual BH flag capping stuff. My teammate and I decided to go for 2 Mobile AA and we started to stalk those helo's. Nearly everytime I saw a BH it went down in flames. Same went for the Attack Helo. They had to change their tactics, sneak around a lot more but they still took huge losses. The Attack Helo even started to try and Cover the BH but we still shot them both down. It got to the point where I'd sometimes look at the USMC base and see both helo's on the pad doing nothing for extended periods. Because of our action we actually clawed our way back from a nearly 150 point deficit to win the game by 100+ tickets. My apologies to Apocalypse and his BH squad as well as Ludlow In conclusion all I'm saying is that AA as it is in-game is fine. If it was any more accurate it'd take the joy out of flying and even if you don't kill ur target its still a very good deterrant. But with proper use it can change the course of a game. Oh, and MOBILE AA is VICIOUS.

07-13-2005, 06:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Black_V!per Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kingman AZ. Age: 20 Posts: 1,442	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. Wow thats a detailed report, ive got to try out the mobil AA, sounds like fun! __________________ Start counting, when you reach infinity tell me. If you can read this you've got to much time on your hands.

07-13-2005, 06:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 35 Posts: 8,844	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. I have had relatively good luck with the AA. Here are some of the tricks that seem to work for me. YMMV: Get a lock on an aircraft and wait for them to dispense flares. After they have dispensed their flares, let loose and fire the two AA rockets. When an aircraft is approaching you, try and wait until they have passed over and you have a good view of the rear of the craft before firing. The rockets seem to hold their targets better if you're firing at their exhaust. If you're dealing with an aircraft a long distance away and they are not advancing on your position or threatening you in any way, just keep that lock and keep the rockets firing. If they are assaulting another flag, the diversion and worry you're creating in the mind of the pilot is a serious asset to the flag defenders. You may not take them down, but if you can get them to back off on the flag they are attacking it may be just as good. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

07-13-2005, 07:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
burble Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 22 Posts: 326	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. the problem is simply that a half-decent fighter pilot, or a GOOD chopper pilot, can always evade AA missiles. i'm a **** pilot, and the only way i ever get taken down in a jet is if another aircraft is chasing me. all i ever do for missile locks (again, unless i know someone's tailing me) is roll 90* in one direction, pull all the way back on the stick, and hit the afterburners. no flares required, the missile(s) always lose me.

07-13-2005, 07:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
peardog Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: PA, USA Age: 39 Posts: 1,085	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. I have to say that there are times I have seen Jet pilot's OWN a map... Some of them are getting VERY good..and they just wipe out a base amd move onto the next target... I would like a shoulder held SAM ..just to Frustrate the Pilots a bit more... I like to frustrate the fly boys! (Specially since I can't fly 20 ft. without hitting the ground upside down!!)

07-13-2005, 07:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Black_V!per Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kingman AZ. Age: 20 Posts: 1,442	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. Ya anti-tank should be anti-vehicle, one/two shoulder stinger/sam and same amount anti tank as is now, like DC. __________________ Start counting, when you reach infinity tell me. If you can read this you've got to much time on your hands.

07-13-2005, 07:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ski-Racer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 93	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. There are 3 issues... 1. The jets can enter and exit your effective range before you can lock on through the chaff. 2. Most AA has a dead-spot that is about a 15 degree cone directly above the AA. 3. Either hit detection is bad or the aircraft can take too much punishment before going down. If I hit a blackhawk when shooting the main cannon of a tank, the blackhawk should not go down, it should vaporize.

07-13-2005, 07:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Godfrey Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Surprise, Arizona Posts: 82	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. The mobile AA is fearsome, it is accurate and delivers sever damage. But really that is it, small arms fire can hurt as well as the rare AT round. A simple BH or attack chopper will make short work of the squad shooting at them tho. But the mounted stinger AA is in my opinion Crap. I do not expect it to take down every aircraft i see, but I would like to see it hit more than 50% of my targets. Maybe it does hit, and I just do not see it. Once again I am not looking for the magic bullet, but rather a deterant to aircraft. __________________ If it is worth winning, then it is worth fighting dirty for!

07-13-2005, 08:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Kojio Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 54	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. There is a weapon-switching feature in BF:2 that, sadly, is completely wasted on being used solely for the ranking system. This game supports one class choosing a multitude of different weapons to spawn with. In order to incorporate infantry AA into this game, all you need to do is create a mod that includes a shoulder-mounter STINGER as an unlockable weapon for the Anti-Tank class. Then on the spawn screen you can choose between two weapons, an AT weapon and an AA weapon. THat would be perfect, as long as the AA weapon did feck-all damage to tanks.

07-13-2005, 08:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ludlow Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 24	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. Cymba! You killed me alot that round. I can't do much with AA as most of the time I go up against really good bomber pilots who hit their mark everytime. I can take down most chopper pilots easily though. The thing that usually works for me is to target the enemy chopper and hold lock there till they blow flares, then pop of 2 rounds and get the hell out of there... Anyway, BAD CYMBA! -Lud

07-13-2005, 11:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
SmokingTarpan Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,443	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. All I know is that I have, multiple times, fired mounted AA at a nearby stationary/moving in a straight line away from me target that didn't drop chaff/flares, and got to watch the rockets sail right past. Other times I have watched pilots execute a slow, small turn at the beginning of a lock and evade completely. The rockets are supposed to have lock-on capabilties; as in following their target. I understand they won't be able to follow a last-minute 90-degree turn, but I'm not even seeing them follow a slow-moving or stationary target. From what I've seen, they're acting like fire and forget rockets. I've downed more APC's with the AA rockets than I have aircraft.

07-14-2005, 12:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
pudd9 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sunny Australia. HAHAHAHAHA Age: 20 Posts: 72	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. i think the AT/AA combo would be fantastic... as the machine gun in AT is a bucket of cr@p! __________________

07-14-2005, 01:29 AM	#15 (permalink)
Arf Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 972	Re: Views on BF2 Anti-Air from a Pilot. I can't hit anything with the missles from the Stingers, Planes, or mobile AA. I can get the occasional hit on a helicopter but I actually do better with the AT kit. Any pointers on how to use the AA missles would be greatly appreciated.

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