asch

Just wanted to point out a few observations about squad specialties & squad names...

1) Rarely is there a need for two specialty squads of the same type. One night there was a blackhawk squad, airforce squad and an air squad... all on the same team on the same map. These squads were under utilized.

2) When a map changes and that specialty squad is no longer needed, please change the name of the squad or create a new one with a better name. Having an air squad or blackhawk squad on a map with neither is confusing for players looking to join a squad.

3) Commanders should look at the list of squad names and put that into their head. Once when I was CO I didn't realize that my squad 4 was an air squad. That led me to misuse them. At the same time, when the CO asks for squads to merge, break up or change "type", the SLs should be listening to their CO.

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Gooberosity

See, if I were commanding, I would want individual Jets in their own squad so I could issue them orders separately. Are you thinking that they should be in the same squad?

(maybe I misunderstand the intent of the thread)

Reason I ask is because I found that we were not using air assets in Gulf of Oman well last night, so created a "Jet" squad (was on USMC side) and proceeded to provide support for the teams that were trying to re-take the beach flags. A second person created another air squad and got different orders.

I totally agree however that the squad name should truly reflect what the squad's function is, especially if it is an air unit (Blackhawk Squad, Cobra Squad, Air Support). If your blackhawk squad gives up in frustration and decides to take to the ground, they should change their name.

Telorn

Just because the BH squad temporarily stops using the BH because it isn't effective currently or they can't get one, doesn't mean they should change their name. The SL just needs to inform the CO that they are currently not operational. If the pilot quits or they don't want to do the blackhawk anymore, then they shoudl change their name.

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asch

There have been quite a few threads on the topic of air squads. I think the consenses was to create one air squad. This allows the CO to relay the information to the SL of the air squad and let the SL split up the team if need be.

Another reason for keeping it to one squad is that we are limited to 9 squads. While we don't always use all 9, I'd hate to see three air squads for three planes.

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Telorn

Is it alright to have the chopper squad seperate?

I can understand why people might want seperate air squads - mainly in pilot/gunner situations. If you have a gunner/bomber, you want to be in your own squad so you can easily communicate with on another. I know when I'm a gunner (because I can't fly) I am constantly looking around and calling out enemy air to my pilot and will tell him when to break, etc, when the enemy starts to line up a shot. I think all that chatter could get confusing in a single air squad for aircraft/helos.

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Tempus

I can see transport/bh choppers in their own squad, but I like to see all of the jets & attack choppers together in one squad. I can see, however, why they'd want their own squad, as Telorn mentions.

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walrus

I could be wrong, but it seems like the CO cannot seem the name of each squad... only the number.

The SL needs to report special purpose(s) to the CO

Dr_Doom

How do I change my squads name? I was trying this earlier on a squad I created and locked and could not figure it out...

asch

I don't have a problem with specialty squads, or having separate BH squads and the like. I guess my point of this thread is that I want people to be aware of what their squad name / designation is as it relates to the map and the other squads.

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asch

If any player brings up the score screen (TAB KEY), right-clicks with the mouse and then hits the SQUADs tab at the top, they can see all of the squads in their team and the squad name. As CO, I do this constantly now to know if I have a "blackhawk" squad.

It is also helpful it the SL reports their number and squad role to the CO.

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asch

The SL may not be able to change the name through the manage menu. I guess the only option is to create a new squad, which may suck, but it also eliminates some confusion.

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SmokingTarpan

Last night I started off my squad as "TRANSPORT" on Clean Sweep. Once it switched over to Karkand though, there was no need. So I just told my squad that I'd be re-forming with a different name, and was my standard "TARPAN". I don't think it's that big of a hassle to change unless the squad limit is nigh.

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TG_Rizzo

That's a big *if* when the random public is involved.

I wanted to make a squad on FuShe but there were already nine. There were FOUR air squads that I had no intention of joining and 1 guy by himself in a locked squad. The rest of the squads were all full. I waited about 2 minutes before a slot on a squad opened up...

StrikeFear

I've spent considerable time flying and leading air squads. In my estimation, the following guidelines are clear best-practices in every situation I can think of. Here are the guidelines, followed by replies (to previous comments in this thread) which support them.

1. Put ALL Jets in the same squad (Jets, FastMovers, FixedWing - whatever you want to call it)
2. Put each attack Helo in it's own squad
3. If you have a dedicated transport squad, you may put all transport helo pilots in that squad. But nothing else.

Read on into the heavy post if you want to know why.

I can see what you're getting at, Gooberosity, but consider the purpose/capabilities of the jets, and the assets you get on any given map. The fighter's primary mission is to take down enemy choppers. "Wait a minute," you say, "what about enemy jets? And bombing?" The answer is simple. Fighter's bombing capability is minimal. An EXCELLENT, CRACK pilot can make only fairly weak use of the bombs. He only gets two, they scatter easily, both are required to hit spot on to take out any armor, and he has to return for reload after every run. That's for a crack pilot. The bombs are plain hard to use, so good pilots won't even make very good use of them. You may argue this point - but compare it to the bomber's or attack helo's air-to-ground capabilities, and you'll see that the fighter is just terribly inefficient for that sort of work. So - if the fighter is no good at bombing, then his purpose is only to take out air assets. At that point, the two enemy air assets are choppers and other fighters. The choppers are always a target because they threaten your teams ability to fight, take ground and win. The fighters are only secondarily a threat - if they are hassling your choppers or hassling you. Otherwise (since we know they can't bomb for crap), they're not a target.
Sounds silly, but this should be the target prioritization of the fighter:

1. Enemy jets (if they are threatening you. Always win the air war first.)
2. Enemy helos
3. Enemy jets (if they are threatening your helos)
4. Enemy jets (if there are no enemy helos)
5. Enemy ground targets (if air supremacy has been achieved)

You may argue the order of 2 and 3. However, you do the enemy more damage by successfully removing his helos from the action than you do by protecting your own. Your helos have the ability to protect themselves to some degree, and if you eliminate his air support, your troops will win.

If you have air supremacy, and you have two fighters on the map, each of them are piddly against ground targets. Splitting up their bombing runs will make them both almost totally ineffective. Combining them will give them good opportunity to take out armor in one pass (both jets) and saturate-bomb infantry locations.
If you don't have air supremacy, they NEED to be in the same squad to effectively counter the enemy air force and win the air war. Split them up, and the enemy will win for sure.

You see - there's never a good reason to split up 2 fighters.

If your air assets are mixed (1 fighter, 1 bomber), and you don't have air supremacy, they still need to talk to fight the air war. If you do have air supremacy, the orders you give will be to the bomber for ground targets. As for the fighter, it does no good to give orders to attack helos, because helos are constantly on the move. Troops will spot them and the fighter will seek them out wherever they are. A combo of VOIP and an order are possible if you must: "bomber, keep bombing original target, but helo at this location for the fighter." (Attack order issued at that location). The SL relays the info.

You're absolutely right. VERY confusing. IMPOSSIBLE.
Not a good idea, actually. Jets are always dealing with the same situation, whether they are 2 fighters or mixed assets. If they're fighting the air war, the 2 jets are talking to each other about that. If the assets are mixed and the bomber is on bombing missions, the gunner and pilot are talking and the fighter pilot doesn't need to talk to anyone - he's working alone. As soon as the bomber goes to an air-to-air mission to help out the fighter on occasion, the gunner(RIO) is helping with spotting the enemy aircraft and so his communications are again, in the same context.
Helos, on the other hand, do not ever talk about the air war the way jets do. And the communication between pilot and gunner is going to clash with the commmunication between bomber pilot/gunner. In both cases, there is LOTS of pilot/gunner communication, and they both need clear channels for this constant chatter.
Can't work.

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flux

This is exactly what led to this thread. I brought this to asch's attention last night as I had the same problem. Three air squads with 1 and 2 members each and one squad with a lone sniper in it.

I joined one of the 2 man squads that had a generic name only to find the members were flying the apache. Well I guess they didn't like having someone else in their squad so they booted me out (plus they couldn't strap me on to the front of their apache). I was then booted from the server since I wasn't in a squad.

I don't mind splitting the air squads, but 3 each with 1 or 2 members? Seems like a waste of squad allocation. And are CO's really that good to where they can set waypoints for 3 air squads with everything else going on?