leejo

This came up in another thread. Special jet and hilo squads often get created and locked in games. I assume that this is to help the CO recognize them and to try to ensure that only good pilots get their hands on these high-value vehicles.

On the other hand, others want to learn and participate.

Is this a problem? If so, what to do?

Mishkan

I think a bigger problem is people in air squads screwing around on the ground when there are jets and helicopters that need to be flown

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burble

i'd say practice alone, in SP, or on a regular pub.

it's frustrating to get the crap bombed, missiled, and chaingunned out of you by highly competent enemy pilots, only to have no friendly flyboys practiced enough to fend them off.

SmokingTarpan

It may also be there to limit the size of the squad. I know that when I run my Rapid squad, I lock it so that it gets no bigger than 3 people. Anything bigger than that, and the squad's effective role gets degraded.

I don't believe it's a problem so long as people get rotated into and out of the squad. I don't mean that this should happen every map, but if the same few people are in the squad every day for it week, that might be an issue. We want specialized squads, not exclusive.

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StrikeFear

Really, this thread is about specialty squads formed around the use of particular assets. Not really the kind Tarpan is making, where he limits it to 3 guys who use no special assets.

I quite agree that it sucks when selfish players make a locked squad and pretend they have some right to in-game assets. They should NEVER lock the squad. This is the bad side of it, and it's a shame.

On the other hand, properly done, it's just a way of organizing players who want to use the asset into a squad which can cooperate together and receive asset-specific orders from the Commander.

It should be open to all players with a workable skill level, and they should share asset use with others in the squad.

It shouldn't be a way to claim "dibbs" on an asset - but a place for players who want to use that asset to gather, share, and use the asset to the team's greatest profit.


Really, we're talking about 4 kinds of squads here:
1. Jets
2. Attack helo
3. H-60
4. Armor --------(Tho I haven't seen this yet...)
Any kind of squad which is organized around the use of those assets.

I'm sure there are guys out there who are going about this the wrong way - I can't speak for them. But there is a "RIGHT" way to do this, and it's very fair, and completely unselfish. I'm glad this thread came up, because there is certainly some abuse, and also some misunderstanding of the pure idea.

First, the squad should not be locked. If it's locked, it prevents people from showing up and getting their chance to play with the gear. Players who have no interest in using the assets may join the squad to avoid getting kicked (I've had that happen), and so you should let them know what's up, and if they don't leave, kick em. And again. And again. But don't lock the squad. You just can't afford to, cuz you can't hog the assets.

Forming a specialty squad is like saying this:
"This squad would like to use these assets in an organized fashion with squadmates who are employed in a similar manner such that we can receive effective CO orders as a squad. In that way, this squad will make best use of these assets for our team. Anyone is welcome to join if you have a working proficiency with these assets, and everyone who has joined will get fair share use of the assets."

It's reasonable to expect that the assets which require more skill to use, be practiced with privately until a working combat skill level is attained.

What it does NOT say (or shouldn't, anyway):
"I have laid claim to these assets. No one should use them but us/me. No one can join our squad."

Additional notes:
1. If such a squad exists, and you create another and start competing for the assets, you're a smacktard.
2. If the assets are LEGITIMATELY in use in an existing multi-purpose squad, and you create one and start competing for the assets, you need to resolve that disagreement. This is tricky, no doubt. What's "legitimate"? Who decides? Well, for starters, there's really no one who would argue these 2 points:
- a. If the squad leader is in a jet or attack helo, it's misuse. You can't lead a squad from there. It's possible they're flying the H-60 and allowing their squad to spawn in it. That seems fine.
- b. If the asset has a gunner seat and it is not being used, it is misuse of that asset. Both attack helos and bombers have 10 times the destructive potential with a gunner. Someone using it in their squad without a gunner should give it up to a specialty squad if it is formed (and possibly join it).

There's an argument for saying that attack helos cannot be legitimately used in any kind of ground squad, or indeed, any squad but their own, all by themselves. There is, however, a counter-argument that extremely well-coordinated squads can benefit from close air-support of such a chopper in ways that the heavy comm-traffic between pilot/gunner do not cause comm conflict. Sometimes that's because the pilot and gunner have worked with each other a lot. Or possibly they're on a TS channel separately for their own comms. So what's legitimate?
There are known, capable pilots and gunners who do this. If you recognize them, don't bother making a specialty squad for that asset - it's already being used effectively. Perhaps you should ask if you could have access to the asset later in the map, or maybe just wait til next map.
And if you think that's NOT the case ... that it's just a disorganized squad misusing a team asset... in other words, making poor use of the potential of the asset due to:
1. Comm conflict between pilot/gunner and squad making it less effective
2. CO cannot give orders to the asset (helo, bomber, etc) separate from the ground squad they're with

... if you think that's what's going on, make a specialty squad and tell the commander what you're thinking. He should have an idea of how well the asset is being used. Chances are, he's seething about it, but no one else is using it, so he has no choice. If he agrees, the order will be given so that the asset can be used effectively by your new squad - whoever is in it (quite possibly the people who were already using it).

This post is quite long.

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Strikeman

Well I must apologize; I created a helo squad tonight on Kubra. I locked it and kicked the other members out.

I was selfish and I apologize to those I pissed off. I just wanted to have some helo fun. I was frustrated because we had players who were not in the helo squad taking the helos without any gunners in them or anything. Nothing gets me more worked up than people flying helos without gunners, especially when there are people who would like to gun.

From now on I will keep the squad unlocked and will rotate people through, if they wish.

I realize I acted like some idiot on the ranked servers, I apologize.

Strike

UnreferencedVariable

I don't know if this should be a requirement, but when I join a specialty squad I try to ask via VOIP what kit the SL would like me to be as it is always frustrating to spawn assault or AT then find yourself in a BH and being pretty useless. Maybe it's just me but I can't fire a gun or shoot a grenade or rocket out of the back of a moving heli and hit the broad side of a barn.

StrikeFear

Wow. I admire your apology. I know I've felt the same way you did about others screwing off with the "assets."

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Rin

Regardless of the outcome of this topic, I think Arf needs to be banned from flying altogether.

Unless he is on my team, that is.

Please stop killing me.

Riki_Rude_BTYC

im just curious as to what a rapid squad is? im guessing its in a buggy, but whats its purpose/what classes are in it?


i just actually noticed asset squads tonight, i think its a good idea, but the thing is for myself, is that things change too quickly in battle, i just have my squad and if we need some ground vehicles to take a base we'll grab any we find and hit that base hard, if there is a available blackhawk we will hop into that start capping flags with only infantry resistance, if you have asset squads then sometimes it becomes difficult to do things a fly, especailly since SL cant talk to eachother, you have to go through commander to get those assets.

for example if my squad needed quick transport via black hawk and there is already a blackhawk squad with 3 people in it, then only 3 of my soldiers can fly, thats not going ot work. Although i do see the very positive side of having asset squads.

id love to see armour squads, perferibly 2 of them, one on each side of the map, so your not waiting forever for armour support.


i must say i enjoy attack heli and jet squads they seem to do their job =)

and you forget the Spec Ops squad, usually people dont make these right (in my opinion there should be as follows
1. Support class who is the SL
2. 1 spec ops
3. 1 medic

medic and commander should stay about 20 meters from the spec ops and take cover, then have fun destorying assets =)


In the perfect world there would be a team with set infantry squads, a spec ops squad, jet and attack heli squads, and an armour squad.

SmokingTarpan

Explanation here:
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlefield-2-tactics-missions-discussion/57272-tarpan-r-l.html

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Riki_Rude_BTYC

thanks!


very interesting i really like the idea, i hope to see you on my team sometime and become apart of one of your squads =)

Levi

Locking asset squads is just being a prick. It's equally annoying to have random people using everything incorrectly, ie: without a gunner/WSO. I've seen a few locked squads for assets, if I want to fly (they're almost always jet squads with 2 people in them) then I simply ask them if I can trade off with them. If they refuse, which they often do, then I'll just take the vehicle when I have a chance, and let them get the TK or piss and moan about it. If I try to work things out to be fair-and they won't even consider it, then they don't deserve my consideration.

Asset squads, when ran the way that StrikeFear runs them, are awesome, fair, and fun for everyone. When they're ran by smacktards they make me angry. Incidentally, if you're in a 6 person jet squad, and only 3 people can fly at once, what should the other people do? Just wait around for the planes to respawn? Man static defenses of the area? <probably the best idea imho. Any opinions?

StrikeFear

There are some really excellent roles for them to fill:

1. Engineer - repair/protect CO assets
2. Man defenses (particularly AAA - you want to protect your airstrip)
3. Drive armor to the front lines - hand it of to the squads in combat
4. Be squad leader so you can manage squad strategy, etc. (tricky - but possible to rotate this around)

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Loki_978

The one that ticks me off is...

Creating and AA squad, locking it and then claiming that the AA vehicles on the map are yours.

Even better: Yelling in chat about someone who "stole" YOUR asset. This has hapened at least twice in the last week.