Clarrification on a TG rule

SeanNTI · 08-22-2005, 01:24 PM

Last night in Karkand my squad was attempting to take the "train wreck" CP. While my squade mates rushed the flag I, playing support, went prone near the fence line and all of a sudden an enemy spawned right in front of me. I killed him but then thought that I had broken the rule.

What should I have done?

-Sean

Mateo · 08-22-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanNTI

Last night in Karkand my squad was attempting to take the "train wreck" CP. While my squade mates rushed the flag I, playing support, went prone near the fence line and all of a sudden an enemy spawned right in front of me. I killed him but then thought that I had broken the rule.

What should I have done?

-Sean

I'm probably wrong on this, but the prohibition on killing respawners is for UCBs only. I can't tell you how many time's I've died on spawn.

Lucky Shot · 08-22-2005, 01:28 PM

You are fine IMO. Your squad was trying to take the flag, the spawner would try to stop it. Trying to figure out at what point that the spawner would have his bearings is difficult at best. He will spawn unimpeded elsewhere.

Lucky Shot

Cur · 08-22-2005, 01:29 PM

You were just fine SeanNTI. The "rule" that you may be thinking of concerns spawning players inside their own UCB (Uncapturable base). You are not allowed to kill a player when you are inside an enemy UCB while you are there destroying assets (UAV, artillery, radar). You are allowed to defend yourself, but you should try to avoid contact with spawning players.

Please see the "Standards" and "SOP's" linked conveinently in Asch's signature!

Good luck and welcome!

John CANavar · 08-22-2005, 01:30 PM

Also from SOP:

Spawn Camping
On our BF2 server, spawn camping is not permitted.

"Spawn camping" requires a certain INTENT. To spawn camp, it must be your INTENT to EXPLOIT a player's post-spawn lack of orientation while attacking that player. You are sitting (camp), waiting to attack a player immediately after he enters gameplay (spawn). This is spawn camping, and it is not allowed on Tactical Gamer's BF2 server.

Now, some people hear "no spawn camping" and take that to mean that they're not to be in the opposition's UCB at all. This is not the case on our BF2 server.

Faultline · 08-22-2005, 01:39 PM

When attacking certain flags and trying to neutralize them I'll throw grenades in areas where enemies commonly spawn. I would think this is not in violation of any rules either?

Cur · 08-22-2005, 01:42 PM

Also ok - I do this when taking the Power Station flag on Mashtuur City... There is a common spawn behind the shack and when we take the flag I go prone in the corner... always good for a couple of kills!

Like stated before, it's the "intent" of what you are doing. If you try your best to adhere to TG's standards of fair play you will be a-ok!

**CingularDuality** · 08-22-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cur

You are not allowed to kill a player when you are inside an enemy UCB while you are there destroying assets (UAV, artillery, radar). You are allowed to defend yourself, but you should try to avoid contact with spawning players.

Last night someone had a question about this, too. Let's clear this up.

The UCB is not some sort of "safe zone" that you can hide inside without fear of being killed. If your helo is getting torn up, heading back to base doesn't mean that the jet has to stop hunting you. It doesn't mean that you can repair your UAV shack without worrying about a sniper picking you off. It doesn't mean that the commander can just lay prone out in the open and not care about the spec ops about to slit his throat.

Our rule was meant to allow for a safe place for people to SPAWN without immediately getting mowed down. You should be able to spawn and get out of your UCB without taking fire (provided your teammates aren't otherwise attracting enemy fire). If you choose to partake in some other defensive activity inside the UCB, you become fair game for the enemy.

As for spawncamping a CAPTURABLE base? Well, those should always be thought of as hot LZs when you're spawning. I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone sitting outside the flag capture area, waiting for people to spawn so they can be mowed down, but we all know that there's a period of time when the offense is moving in that the defense can still spawn right in front of them. Stuff happens...

**Pokerface** · 08-22-2005, 01:45 PM

Here's the dilly-yo.

Per the rules, spawn-camping is not permitted. Anywhere. You can't sit on a hill and just rack up kills at a flag, capturable or no. BUT (and there's always a but) as has been previously quoted, spawn-camping requires a certain intent.

If your team is in the process (and I mean immediate process) of working a capturable flag over for neutralization, I pity the poor folks that spawn there. You're not camping the spawn, you're taking the flag, and that is not just OK, but expected.

The reason there's usually the UCB distinction is that there's no flag to take there, and thus, FAR less reason to be shooting people as they spawn.

Wulfyn · 08-22-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

If your team is in the process (and I mean immediate process) of working a capturable flag over for neutralization, I pity the poor folks that spawn there. You're not camping the spawn, you're taking the flag, and that is not just OK, but expected.

Remember that the enemy has a choice of where to spawn, and if he wants to spawn in a place that an enemy is capping in order to gain the advantage of a quick rescue without having to travel a lot of distance, shouldn't it be fair for the team capping that flag to say "no you don't". It's a calculated risk.

Also flag capping is doubly dangerous as the enemy can spawn behind you. I have been killed many times where I have been running to take a flag and get shot in the back from a guy that wasn't there a couple seconds ago.

As long as you are not deliberately trying to take advatage of the spawn in order to increase your own personal kill count then it's fine.

Santa · 08-22-2005, 07:28 PM

Ive seen squads in mashtuur at the north east flag just camp on the hill and rain hell down on anything that spawns, and not even go for the flag. I see this as a smart tactic as it drains tickets if the enemy is willing to keep spawn there, but whats yalls view on that?

and by the way sean that was a fun attack on the bridge

Musta lasted 10 minutes.

**Pokerface** · 08-22-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Santa

Ive seen squads in mashtuur at the north east flag just camp on the hill and rain hell down on anything that spawns, and not even go for the flag. I see this as a smart tactic as it drains tickets if the enemy is willing to keep spawn there, but whats yalls view on that?

and by the way sean that was a fun attack on the bridge

Musta lasted 10 minutes.

I see it as lame and ban-worthy. If you're picking off people as they spawn, it's spawn-camping. If you've got such a stranglehold on the flag area, send people in to cap it.

=Sarc= · 08-22-2005, 11:01 PM

On Mashtuur, I don't see why it would be done because you can hold flags to drain enemy tickets. However, the maps where you have to hold all of them like Cleansweep kills are very important and may be the only way the team can win. Still, it's spawn camping and the rules state it is forbidden.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-22-2005, 11:51 PM

Alot of grey area though.

Examples:

Defending the western most beach flag on oman. I shoot people in the cb just east of there if they are ATTACKING either the base I am defending or the artillery. A tank or APC can reach it and a sniper can pick a few off. Don't kill allot of them but it can disorient them. It is difficult since most spawn behind the barrier but a couple opportunities present themselves.

Another example is the commander. You got the enemy down to one or two bases and they are bleeding. Some bases are just more likely for people to spawn at. And sweeps show that is where they are spawning at. You have no intention of capturing the bases because bleed is good and defenses are just like you want them. Is calling arty on them illegal? I don't feel it is. I would say that not calling arty on them seems silly.

And what if it is a game where there are no UCBs? It is a close game and coming down to the end. Attacking the last base of the enemy may be a bad idea because of the potential of large ticket loss. So sending some squads out to surround the base and keep them pinned there is breaking the rules?

The main thing in these examples was there is no INTENT to take advantage of the post spawn disorientation. But there is an intent to take advantage of the other teams position. It just so happens that one can occur during the execution of the other.

But sometimes i wonder if this rule for non-ucb might be a bit of a throwback to other games and is not needed in bf2. After all there is the SL to spawn on so there is an option of the SL(s) falling back and flanking the ones "camping". Or the commander calling arty in on the campers. Or the commander calling in another squad to help out or air strikes ect. Plus with the VOIP and spotting ability (not to mention UAVs) it is rather easy to warn those about to spawn where the shots are coming from. And unlike BF1942/VN the spawn locations are pretty random and I have noticed the game is pretty good about locating me away from the action.

I am not complaining about the rule and I guess somebody COULD abuse the situation. But with the teamwork the way it is, this would be difficult. I say this because unnecessary rules usually lead to misunderstandings or confusion.

Just a thought.

Of course I think the only reason that UCBs should be off limits now is their lack of defenses. If the map designers would have put in massive AA (that could actually take out jets) and good gun placements they would be off limits simply due their dangerous nature and lack of any real reward for entry.

Oh well, just some thoughts.

*edited for clarity and horrible spelling*

Mishkan · 08-22-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

As for spawncamping a CAPTURABLE base? Well, those should always be thought of as hot LZs when you're spawning. I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone sitting outside the flag capture area, waiting for people to spawn so they can be mowed down, but we all know that there's a period of time when the offense is moving in that the defense can still spawn right in front of them. Stuff happens...

Ok, this was definitely a problem earlier today on Sharqi (I think it was that one) where the MEC helicopter just flew in circles around the Hotel firing with missiles and the gunner's machine gun. It was obviously for the point of ranking up kills.

08-22-2005, 01:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
SeanNTI Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17	Clarrification on a TG rule Last night in Karkand my squad was attempting to take the "train wreck" CP. While my squade mates rushed the flag I, playing support, went prone near the fence line and all of a sudden an enemy spawned right in front of me. I killed him but then thought that I had broken the rule. What should I have done? -Sean

08-22-2005, 01:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lucky Shot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,639	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule You are fine IMO. Your squad was trying to take the flag, the spawner would try to stop it. Trying to figure out at what point that the spawner would have his bearings is difficult at best. He will spawn unimpeded elsewhere. Lucky Shot

08-22-2005, 01:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cur Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 38 Posts: 146	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule You were just fine SeanNTI. The "rule" that you may be thinking of concerns spawning players inside their own UCB (Uncapturable base). You are not allowed to kill a player when you are inside an enemy UCB while you are there destroying assets (UAV, artillery, radar). You are allowed to defend yourself, but you should try to avoid contact with spawning players. Please see the "Standards" and "SOP's" linked conveinently in Asch's signature! Good luck and welcome! __________________ \|TG-42nd\|Lt James Please read our TG Rules of Conduct, Player Standards, BF2 Rules and Guidelines, and about wearing the TG tag.

08-22-2005, 01:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
John CANavar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 3,405	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule Also from SOP: Spawn Camping On our BF2 server, spawn camping is not permitted. "Spawn camping" requires a certain INTENT. To spawn camp, it must be your INTENT to EXPLOIT a player's post-spawn lack of orientation while attacking that player. You are sitting (camp), waiting to attack a player immediately after he enters gameplay (spawn). This is spawn camping, and it is not allowed on Tactical Gamer's BF2 server. Now, some people hear "no spawn camping" and take that to mean that they're not to be in the opposition's UCB at all. This is not the case on our BF2 server.

08-22-2005, 01:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Faultline Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tennessee Age: 30 Posts: 1,561	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule When attacking certain flags and trying to neutralize them I'll throw grenades in areas where enemies commonly spawn. I would think this is not in violation of any rules either? __________________

08-22-2005, 01:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cur Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Providence, RI Age: 38 Posts: 146	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule Also ok - I do this when taking the Power Station flag on Mashtuur City... There is a common spawn behind the shack and when we take the flag I go prone in the corner... always good for a couple of kills! Like stated before, it's the "intent" of what you are doing. If you try your best to adhere to TG's standards of fair play you will be a-ok! __________________ \|TG-42nd\|Lt James Please read our TG Rules of Conduct, Player Standards, BF2 Rules and Guidelines, and about wearing the TG tag.

08-22-2005, 01:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,818	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule Here's the dilly-yo. Per the rules, spawn-camping is not permitted. Anywhere. You can't sit on a hill and just rack up kills at a flag, capturable or no. BUT (and there's always a but) as has been previously quoted, spawn-camping requires a certain intent. If your team is in the process (and I mean immediate process) of working a capturable flag over for neutralization, I pity the poor folks that spawn there. You're not camping the spawn, you're taking the flag, and that is not just OK, but expected. The reason there's usually the UCB distinction is that there's no flag to take there, and thus, FAR less reason to be shooting people as they spawn. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

08-22-2005, 07:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Santa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 19 Posts: 3,355	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule Ive seen squads in mashtuur at the north east flag just camp on the hill and rain hell down on anything that spawns, and not even go for the flag. I see this as a smart tactic as it drains tickets if the enemy is willing to keep spawn there, but whats yalls view on that? and by the way sean that was a fun attack on the bridge Musta lasted 10 minutes.

08-22-2005, 11:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
=Sarc= Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 4,716	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule On Mashtuur, I don't see why it would be done because you can hold flags to drain enemy tickets. However, the maps where you have to hold all of them like Cleansweep kills are very important and may be the only way the team can win. Still, it's spawn camping and the rules state it is forbidden. __________________ JO Guides & Tutorials Team Element - It's who you game with.

08-22-2005, 11:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 40 Posts: 2,970	Re: Clarrification on a TG rule Alot of grey area though. Examples: Defending the western most beach flag on oman. I shoot people in the cb just east of there if they are ATTACKING either the base I am defending or the artillery. A tank or APC can reach it and a sniper can pick a few off. Don't kill allot of them but it can disorient them. It is difficult since most spawn behind the barrier but a couple opportunities present themselves. Another example is the commander. You got the enemy down to one or two bases and they are bleeding. Some bases are just more likely for people to spawn at. And sweeps show that is where they are spawning at. You have no intention of capturing the bases because bleed is good and defenses are just like you want them. Is calling arty on them illegal? I don't feel it is. I would say that not calling arty on them seems silly. And what if it is a game where there are no UCBs? It is a close game and coming down to the end. Attacking the last base of the enemy may be a bad idea because of the potential of large ticket loss. So sending some squads out to surround the base and keep them pinned there is breaking the rules? The main thing in these examples was there is no INTENT to take advantage of the post spawn disorientation. But there is an intent to take advantage of the other teams position. It just so happens that one can occur during the execution of the other. But sometimes i wonder if this rule for non-ucb might be a bit of a throwback to other games and is not needed in bf2. After all there is the SL to spawn on so there is an option of the SL(s) falling back and flanking the ones "camping". Or the commander calling arty in on the campers. Or the commander calling in another squad to help out or air strikes ect. Plus with the VOIP and spotting ability (not to mention UAVs) it is rather easy to warn those about to spawn where the shots are coming from. And unlike BF1942/VN the spawn locations are pretty random and I have noticed the game is pretty good about locating me away from the action. I am not complaining about the rule and I guess somebody COULD abuse the situation. But with the teamwork the way it is, this would be difficult. I say this because unnecessary rules usually lead to misunderstandings or confusion. Just a thought. Of course I think the only reason that UCBs should be off limits now is their lack of defenses. If the map designers would have put in massive AA (that could actually take out jets) and good gun placements they would be off limits simply due their dangerous nature and lack of any real reward for entry. Oh well, just some thoughts. edited for clarity and horrible spelling Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 08-23-2005 at 09:34 AM.

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