umbra

I played the heck out of BF1942, BF:V, Forgotten Hope, etc. but I'm just now getting into BF2. One question for the pros here:

On some maps I like to play AT and stay and defend a flag that is usually hotly contested. Sometimes I'll find myself alone and in the middle of a major attack, and I'll often die trying to defend but not until I've taken out much of the enemy - sometimes I'll successfully defend or retake the flag. (Disclaimer: I'm trying to unlock a couple of weapons so I am indeed playing on ranked servers, which means that often there is no squad worth joining (ATTACK HERE!!!! NO - WAIT - GO ATTACK HERE!!! NO WAIT I JUST GOT KILLED SO FOLLOW ME HERE!!!) )

My question: I'm not actively going after new flags when I do this, of course. I don't play sniper (which frankly I love) because it feels too lone wolf/non-team play. And sometimes when it becomes apparent that the "front" has moved such that the flag is not likely to be under attack, I'll move closer to the front. But is playing a round strictly in defense poor team play?

Thanks - docdaddy (Umbra is my old name)

Tempus

Well, you do what your CO or SL tells you to do. Here on TG, however, defense is a very important role and, while sometimes uneventful, is often quite rewarding.

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FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

AntiVisual

No, 1st-MIP prides itself on our level of defense and once the right flags are taken defense usually wins a map.

What is bad teamplay is not joining a squad and more specifially playing servers where no one plays as a team. I consider even playing on a server like that is no teamwork in my book. Why are you asking all this on a TG server forum if you don't play here?

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Mateo

Actually, defense is the highest expression of Tactical Gaming. It requires teamwork, coordination, and communication.

Since we play squad based here, you won't find many players shirking defensive duty. When the SL says "We're going over to defense here" we take up our positions and wait it out.

Nothing better than repelling an assault on a hotly contested flag.

Also, I'm usually a sniper, and I object to the lone wolf characterization. I try to be an integral part of the team, offering up intel, covering their backs, whatever.

Most of your impressions are the result of playing in the wild.

asch

I think you'll find we promote defense here. You will usually see a whole squad or fire team defending a flag so you're not stuck there alone. A good CO will know which flags to take, which to defend, how many flags are needed for ticket bleed, etc.

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Shiner

Yeh, as the others said there are many of us here, perhaps even a majority that prefer playing defense. Given a choice between potential downtime or playing whack-a-mole on a map, I always choose the first.

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Barracuda_Magoo

I've found that playing defense doesn't stay boring for long. The first few minutes may be uneventful, but all of a sudden your lonely flag becomes the focus of the entire enemy offensive. I definately prefer the fun of frantically beating off a massive attack compared to whack-a-mole.

Beatnik

Agreed. Some of the best battles I've had have been defending a much-desired CP from multiple squads. The 7th Infantry division (the |TG- 7th| tags you see around) actually focuses on ground-based, defensive play.

</hijack>Believe it or not, I actually played a game on a non-TG server for about an hour on Sunday, when we only had 25 ppl on Clean Sweep on server #1. It was a full clan server on Karkand (63 people). There were 15 lone wolfs running around, so I started a squad called VOIP only, invited a random handful of people, and started talking. Got 5 ppl in 2 different games and nothing. I had 1 or 2 people start to help out and actually spawn on me, helping me take points, but the others were just all over the place. And no VOIP to be heard, anywhere.

Defense is impossible in these situations.</end hijack>

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Pickle

A sniper can be a very integral part of a game. I was playing on a Karkand map last night (TG servers were empty) and a sniper was continually taking out our guys from the West? hill at the US UCB. He got me once and I figured out where he was. I respawned as a sniper, circled around and took him out, twice. I never and I mean never play sniper. But in BF2 the sniper role is more important to a team than perhaps other FPS.

I too love defense and have found myself quite happily defending a hotly contested flag. I get more pride and satisfaction from successfully defending than attacking. I suppose because I am denying the opposition something. One of the reasons that you (Umbra) may feel this way, and others too I suppose is that points are not really awarded for defending. When on the offensive you are actively seeking out targets and eliminating them. On defense you are sitting and waiting for someone to show up. All dressed up and dancing at a party vs. all dressed up and nowhere to go.

Defense is what is great about squads and SL's in this game. That and working as a team. I am only an average player but hopefully I'll join a clan soon.

AzrealDarkmoon

Defense wins, on a personal level you need comm with your SL and a good firing position. As an SL you need to know how best to defend a point and as a CO you need to know what points to defend.

Az

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John CANavar

And lets remember that it doesn't have to be either defense or attack. A structured squad (fire teams) will be able to do both at the same time.

We usually serve like this. A fire team defends a relatively silent flag while the other coordinates with another squad attacking a neighbor flag.

If you want to be a fair squad leader, you can switch attacking and defending fire teams so they all see action and take a rest back at the silent base.

Important CPs, on the other hand, requires at least one full squad to attack or defend...

Xink

defence is my forte, its alot more fun than you would think coming from ranked server play, theres alot of humour over VOIP to be had during the quiet times and plently of action when things get hot, plus its a very stratigic tactic and holding crutial flags to prevent the enemy from using its assets is paramount to the success of your team (atleast in my brief history here at TG, flag hopping doesnt get you very far)

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theoriginalblankman

Attacking is surely to be eventful but defense, when it's good, far surpasses attacking.
This is why I like defending: You'll sit there maybe for a couple of minutes with nothing going on then the radar goes up and you see you've got like 3 squads about to attack you. Succeeding in a swarm like that is probably the most rewarding thing Bf2 has to offer, and also one of the funnest.


About Ranked Servers -
If you're playing on them the only servers worth checking out at all are tomclancygamers.com (or something like that) and some of the trinity servers like mojo dojo and 9th Infantry. They're the only ones I've found with whole squads on voip (not all the time though) and actual teamwork. But every now and then I'll just want to kill people so I go on something like 24/7 Karkarand and slaughter, I consider it more of a Team Deathmatch then a teamplay conquest. While were on that topic, the one thing I would buy the bf2 extension for is if they had different gameplay modes rather than just conquest, imagine King of the Hill on Battlefield 2.

umbra

Thanks guys - I prefer servers like TG (and one other that is very mature players - I'm an old fart myself (but I've played with guys that were 16 and more mature than some guys who are 40, so its not just age!) ) but I wanted to unlock a couple of weapons and thus the ranked server "experience." And as any of you who have played on those know, good squads can be hard to find. Last night I was on one that I thought would be OK, but the SL just randomly seemed to order an attack here, then a defense on the other side of teh map, then before we could get there an attack somewhere else, and there was no strategy or tactics I could see. The only advantage was having the medic and supply guys around, and I seemed to be the only one irritated by the lack of good leadership. I tried to start my own defensive based squad, to defend a highly contested and critical (as in, you have to get through this one to get to the others) flag, but no one wanted to position themselves in good field of fire positions (in fact, no one knew what a field of fire position was) so I ended up holding off the hordes myself. It was fun in a Rambo way - hit a tank that didn't know what hit it, run to another position while they tried to find me, take them out, move and hide when the guy who jumped out tries to find me and ambush him (hard to do with the AT submachine gun or pistol - I want that shotgun!) take the flag back and call for help, etc. Very satisfying but also very unsatisfying in trying to do it without the benefit of a good defensive squad. Sigh.

I suppose the right answer is to saw screw the unlocks and just play on TG or the other server.