Pickle

Just a thought for your consideration about the argument against the commander's scan feature being too powerful.

I thought I was doing a fantastic the other night. I was on Karkand as Spec ops. We were getting the poop beat out of us by opfor arty. So I went solo to blow it up. It was a public server (flog me now) so I had no one to assist me. I did a great job sneaking across the river and subsequently hiding underneath the actual arty itself. I sat there a while, and gathered my sprint back and then made my way toward the arty. I ended up hiding between the crates. I thought I was well hidden until I was knifed. All of the action was taking place near the Southern MEC base so I was wondering who could have knifed me. Turned out it was the MEC commander. He must have used the scan and then saw I was nearby. I am not so pompous as to think I made it there absolutely unseen but I was there a while and think I would have received some kind of incoming rounds while in the water.

This long and unnecessary story is to illuminate the power of [insert climatic music] "The Scan". I have heard complaints that what good is a ghillie suited sniper if he can be located so easily? Good point. How about just removing the ability of the sniper class from showing up on the UAV and the Scan? You don't know where he is unless you spot him or he eliminates you? I now open the topic for discussion.

Edit: I know that the scan feature has been discussed before but I didn't see this particular solution. If it is indeed a solution. Not trying to be a spoon and stirring stuff up, just wondering out loud.

Mateo

I've played both sides of this: as a sniper, I'd really rather that I was exempt from the scan.

The flip side of it, as a CO, I want every advantage I can give my squads, so I'd scream bloody murder if snipers were exempt.

If every....60 seconds or so....I can tell a squad where a sniper is, or better yet, take them out with arty, I've done some good as a CO.

Being a sniper doesn't mean you should camp out forever in one spot, so anyone that complains about THE SCAN just isn't playing sniper right.

If you camp out, doesn't matter how good you are, a CO or SL will find a way to eliminate you.

Like Special Forces, the power of the class lies in quick hits. If I take out 2 or 3, then move, I look just like any other soldier as far as the scan is concerned, and cease to be important to a CO.

The status quo is fine with me. Tell the complainers to play sniper right!

Lucky Shot

If snipers were exempt from the scan, if I was Squad Leader then that is the ONLY class I would ever take. Forces me to stay back from the flag and keeps the mobile spawn point hidden.

Lucky Shot

Pickle

Something I hadn't thought of. Very good point.

CingularDuality

This just illustrates the importance of destroying the radar as well as the artillery and UAV shack.

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Pickle

Absolutely. Very good input everyone!

SilverStealth89

i think snipers should be exempt from UAV but not scan and the only way to let the team know that there is asniper is by the CO right clicking and clicking on spotted

SilverStealth89

in real life if a sniper is spotted kinda sucks for them the whole point of the sniper is to be unseen and for bullets to come out of no where and hit their targets without the origin being traced, but that whole thing about a hidden spawn point is some scary stuff, imagine an army of squad spawing in the MEC base

ABRA

Firstly I thought SpecOps WERE invisible to the scan.

Secondly modern military doctrine takes it as a certainty that observed infantry are dead infantry on the modern battlefield. Read the USMC tactical manuals avaliable online, or check some of the offline sources avaliable and you will find that this is accepted like the law of gravity. Reasons are numerous but most obviously the avaliablity of short order arty and air ordinance as well as many times more lethal and survivalable armoured threats.

For this reason I think the whole scan feature of BF2 is ridiculous. But in playing I find it even moreso. I think it should be done away with period while 'spotted' enemies should persist on the minimap as long as they are under friendly observation(post spotting of course) and and their last known position should fade more slowly after they are out of observation. In this way tactics such as reconaissance, screening and probing could have value in BF2.

It would weaken the commander but reasonably so. The focus and strength of this game should rest the players who are by and large the infantry. Right now infantry is a sideline to the airbourne and the commander. The US team with a good commander, Blackhawk squad, and superior pilots at this moment can dominate any game regardless of the actions of the rest of their team or the opposition.

Lucky Shot

I agree that the Scan is powerful and extremely useful. I don't think it get's used heavily enough by a commander, especially with the Scan and Spot enemies ability. If you ever have to put up with me as a commander you will hear Enemy Spotted quite a bit. Most appreciate it, some hate it. For that quick 3 seconds of seeing the enemy, there is no way as a commander that I would say it's ok NOT to see a guy.

I would like more commanders to Spot based off of Scan's or any other tools they have at their hands (Map zoomed all the way in, or even with UAV's).

Lucky Shot

Dark Viper

No class is invisible to the scan.

You need infantry to hold flags so you can bottleneck the other team in a small area. Then you can just arty or bomb the crap out of them. Without ground squads, the other team would just run rampant and neither of the 3 you mentioned would be able to get many kills. Without the scan, alot more squads would just be left on defense because the commander would not be able to see if anything was coming in, which I think would make the games slower and more boring.

perry

You could solve the SL thing by not allowing the SL to be invisible no matter what class he is.

I think the commander not being able to spot would solve some of the "problems." He can still scan to see what's going on in the big picture, but showing the rest of the team where someone is would require a UAV overflight.

I've only played commander for a couple hours on a ranked server to get the feel of the interface (you know the squads won't listen to orders, and half the team isn't in a squad anyways...). I'd throw a UAV up on one area where it looked like people were attacking, then scan and spot everything in another area.. Like a second UAV. All the spotted messages annoyed me, so I know my teammates were annoyed but I bet they liked being able to see what was around when the UAV was elsewhere.

OTOH, I can see how the spotting thing is important if all the assets are destroyed - the commander can still zoom all the way in and spot enemies.

LC34

I actually agree with Abra on this one as he best put it. Snipers are mostly used as reconaissance and that is something that most games of this nature really lack.

I hardly ever play sniper because I am a horrible shot so I am not one to say they need to be invisable to the scan or anything. Yet, it would actually lend some weight to the class that seems to be lacking to most people who play that role.

Back to the topic however, I think that the scans and UAV flights are far too quick to be available again. I don't know the exact time if it is 60 seconds or what but to me when I practice with the commander role on low key fights where there are very few of us I just get the impression that it is a little quick and makes the importance of such intellegence rather weak. Maybe increasing the wait time between each of the flights or scans would help in my eyes. It would also make the commander of each side value the tools instead of just using them constantly. Maybe make the wait as long as the artillery strikes take.

Just my take on it though.

Legato895

guys, your all thinking about solutions that either make people exempt or doing away with scan altogether. there is a simple solution though.

when you think about it, i think dice intended the satellite scan to be kinda infrared like in the movie "behind enemy lines" or whatever that kosovo movie was called...

anyway, why not display concentrations of enemies like a topographical map? if you had say, 6 enemies in a square meter than there would be a dark red blob, but if you say had... 3 in a group and than 3 skirting the outside of the core, you would have a reddish blob with a lighter red halo. it would be turning the scan into a topographical map of activity based on density of heat sources. you wouldn't know if a large red spot is a tank or a mass of infantry, but nothing is preventing you as the commander to zoom into realtime view.

lowering the 'accuracy' of the scan and making it less "theres a dot representing some poor sob" would i think, be a much better solution.

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Saintaw

OT: I thought that going to the enemy UCB & destroying assets was against TG SOPs. Did I get that wrong ?

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