Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? - Page 2

Preston85 · 10-08-2005, 08:58 PM

There really needs to be an offical statement about this, as it goes there is no clear rule saying it is illegal on TG servers. Having admins/SM all saying different things is just confusing......

Personally, if the MEC chopper is wasting its time focusing on the USMC cobra before its took off thats great, leaves the rest of your troops alone to defend the flags. Running blindly at the chopper is a waste of tickets, hide inside then get the AA on it and those .50 cals.

Don't shoot me for saying this but I find "its not fair he kills me everytime before I take off" is a cop out and a frustrated reaction due to the mindset that they are the chopper crew that round so HAVE to fly it, they refuse to admit defeat that the enemy chopper has the better of them (not a fair fight but nevermind) so complain. I'm guilty of it, instead of finding the counter or thinking about the benifits its easier to complain.

This isn't directed at you Landorin, it is just a general observation.

**CingularDuality** · 10-08-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preston85

There really needs to be an offical statement about this, as it goes there is no clear rule saying it is illegal on TG servers. Having admins/SM all saying different things is just confusing......

Official statements will be found in the appropriate forum. Discussion here will be precisely that: discussion. Admins can offer opinions, clarify rules, etc..., but the actual rules are all going to be found HERE.

Lucky Shot · 10-08-2005, 11:15 PM

I am not swayed that the chopper in Sharqi is so defenseless that it deserves a moratorium on being shot until it's in the air. It sits on a repair pad for gosh sakes, any hits it can take this side of destruction is repaired quickly. Once it gets in the air, it goes from Helpless to the most lethal killing machine on the level. When it's pounding the weak, we are just told, Use Teamwork, Suck it up. In response to that, I would encourage that team of 2 to use teamwork, suck it up, find a way around it. Let's be honest, the chopper team is not worried about Fair if they see an enemy squad and no enemy chopper support.

If this is determined to Not Be Fair based on attacking things at the flag with no intent to capture the flag, then we need to totally re-examine the Shootout at the Karkand corral. We fire into a war zone into an area where people are constantly respawning with no intent to capture the flag. People are spawning in that area and here we are peppering it with Sniper shots, Bullets, AT rounds, Tank Rounds, APC shells and Artillery. I don't see a problem with this. They can spawn somewhere else.

Denial of vehicles is better than the next extreme, occupation of vehicles by the enemy. Thats much more effective in terms of keeping the enemy down, it takes denial of assets to more than a 20 second respawn, to a Keep Away game. Which is not "Fair" but is acceptable. Be lucky that they didn't deny you the Chopper for an entire map.

Say if I am on the Oman Beaches capturing the Rock Fort and I see an opposition APC at the next flag over, my area is clear (UAV). I will begin to pop tank shells into that APC at the next flag over as it is a strong weapon that would be used to deny me my next flag. Person in or not, that APC is going down. It will stay down until I have that next flag.

In terms of shooting at great distances to take down a running target. I don't see a difference between killing people at the flag with the chopper with No Intent to take the flag and a sniper who sits on a crane with No Intent to take the flag. In both situations, there is the claim of thinning the herd so that other teammates can take it, denial of positioning, and draining tickets. No Difference.

I realize this may stir the pot a bit.

Lucky Shot

Phelan Ward · 10-09-2005, 12:53 AM

@ Luckyshot

The helipad will not repair fast enough to stop the two quick shots of an AA emplacment or a volley of mini rockets from destroying the heli before it can get off the ground.

The MEC helicopter is "the most lethal killing machine on the level", as the map is mostly infantry based. That MEC gun kills infantry far faster than the Cobra's, which is balanced by it's sub-par TV guided missles. Since there is very little armor on Sharqi, the missles aren't highly missed.

I don't really care if they aren't trying to capture the flag and I don't think that what is being argued about here.

If the MEC manage to capture the Cobra, oh well, I don't like it, i'll live with it, it won't make a huge difference in the outcome of the game anyway.

There's no one in the APC so who cares? If there was, then so what, it's an enemy in an APC, he's asking to get shot at. He can MOVE if wants to avoid that problem, the helicopter cannot.

I don't think the distance of the shot is any big deal.

StrikeFear · 10-09-2005, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelan Ward

Give me a break StrikeFear, if someone camped your runway you'd be on TS in a matter of seconds.

Wow. I have no idea why you accuse me of having a double-standard. I dunno what you think I've said or done that would suggest I would act as you stated.
It has ALWAYS been my firm opinion that there should be NO restrictions on UCB attacks, vehicle destruction, or stealing.
It has ALWAYS been my firm opinion that mining runways, C4ing Blackhawks, jets, tanks, etc, and detonating AFTER they've been occupied should be entirely LEGAL.
I have ALWAYS felt that if a team wants it's assets, they should defend them.
I have always thought it was a shame that a team could completely abandon their UCB and not have to allocate any defensive personnel to it, just because it was against the rules to attack it.

If my team won't defend our runway (non-UCB), and 'my' jet therefore keeps getting destroyed (maybe with me in it), you won't hear me say anything on TS except to congratulate the other team for their effective use of one infantry to suppress our team's jets. (In-game, however, you would hear me yell at our team for not defending our airstrip!

)

I have NO problem at all with someone mining the runway, or destroying the jets, and camping them.

I hope I'm being perfectly clear.

Lucky Shot · 10-09-2005, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelan Ward

@ Luckyshot

The helipad will not repair fast enough to stop the two quick shots of an AA emplacment or a volley of mini rockets from destroying the heli before it can get off the ground.

I am not sympathetic as it is sitting on a repair bay and it's the only vehicle in the level that has that advantage. It can take more punishment while it is on there than not. As silly as this sounds, if you hop in the chopper and get the immediate BUZZ of an AA missle, then hop out and the missle will lose it's track. You haven't flown anywhere yet, it will take the AA time to reload. There are ways around it (Similar to seat hopping in BFV which I did not like).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelan Ward

The MEC helicopter is "the most lethal killing machine on the level", as the map is mostly infantry based. That MEC gun kills infantry far faster than the Cobra's, which is balanced by it's sub-par TV guided missles. Since there is very little armor on Sharqi, the missles aren't highly missed.

The US Chopper is the most lethal killing machine on the US side. I stand corrected. It is stronger than the Tank, the Humvee, The TOW, the AA site. It is by far the premier killing machine for the US forces. Well, this side of Phelan Ward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelan Ward

If the MEC manage to capture the Cobra, oh well, I don't like it, i'll live with it, it won't make a huge difference in the outcome of the game anyway.

Cheaper is the thought that the MEC side can clear the roof, parachute into the Cobra crashing their chopper. That keeps choppers effectively out of the US hands as the US CANNOT take the MEC chopper per the rules we abide by. This effectively shifts the balance towards the MEC. At least there is the chance that a Helo pilot will be able to chase off the MEC chopper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan ward

There's no one in the APC so who cares? If there was, then so what, it's an enemy in an APC, he's asking to get shot at. He can MOVE if wants to avoid that problem, the helicopter cannot.

Not in that initial couple seconds, he is a dead duck until he gets his bearings. A vehicle is a vehicle, I don't see why we are protecting a chopper versus the Jeep that I want to hop into to defend myself from the chopper. When that happens, there is more than a couple seconds of disorientation as you have to hit E, F2, Swing the gun around, and your already dead. So what's the difference from being pounded by a chopper in a chopper and being pummelled in a jeep by a chopper? Again, I don't see one. Two different vehicles, intent on ruining another chopper pilots day.

I checked the definition of Spawn Camping at this link...
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlefield-2-server-rules/57177-rules-battlefield-2-rules-guidelines.html

Quote:

"Spawn camping" requires a certain INTENT. To spawn camp, it must be your INTENT to EXPLOIT a player's post-spawn lack of orientation while attacking that player. You are sitting (camp), waiting to attack a player immediately after he enters gameplay (spawn). This is spawn camping, and it is not allowed on Tactical Gamer's BF2 server.

The run to the Helo, Entering the Helo, Waiting for the gunner, Firing up the Rotors, Hearing the BUZZ of AA, dying. I may be way off, but to me that is well beyond the initial couple seconds of disorientation. That person is well onto his way to engaging the enemy.

Can I expand the discussion to Spawn Killing from a bomber, say Oman? Where the bomber seems to have everything timed to a 20 second interval on a flag (Olive Fortification)? Only intent is to rack up kills and sometimes at a 7 person increment? At times like that, I have been told, Suck it up, Get in an AA, or a Jeep and take him down. Everyone Train your weapons on him. By the time the round is done, that bomber has brought in 150 kills. There is No Way that the bomber would know if the people are disorientated due to spawning, but it's not questioned. I have had squads attempting defense there, not seeing any inbound infantry (read, not supporting ground troops for an attack) but ending up with 70-80 deaths (squad) due to bombing on a 20-30 second interval.

I feel that everyone will agree, Suck it up, Grunt it out. Just like I would ask the chopper pilots, Take out the opposing chopper, you have that god given right to take them out anyway possible. Man up on those .50 cals, Get on that AA, Lay the Saw into them.

Lucky Shot

ABRA · 10-09-2005, 02:27 AM

BF2 is like a good salad. If you bite into the chopper one round, and it is has a spawncamper in it, eat around it. There are plenty of other tasty, nutrious bits of tanks, Vodniks, backstabs, point-blank nade kills and other such mischef to fill up on.

**FPS_Douglas** · 10-09-2005, 03:51 AM

I gotta laugh at this whole thread. I was the person firing at the chopper taking off. I was just learning the TV missile for the first time, and it was done 4 or 5 times AT MOST, then we decided it was stupid with so few on the map, so we shifted to ground. If this is crap, whatever, it's nothing compared to what the TWO bombers did to us the map before when it wasn't more than a 10 on 10. And as for the comment "someone relies on these tactics to compensate his weak gaming skills".... whatever. This was the first time I ever really gunned in a chopper. If you wanna say that about my skills, you're talkin about a guy who's NEVER in the air. My skills speak for themselves. If you wanna talk about somethin like that, talk about people who never leave a bomber. I wish I'd have seen this thread before I talked with u today.

**FPS_Douglas** · 10-09-2005, 04:27 AM

There is definately etiquette in multiplayer gaming. It is a competitive, social enviornment, and fairness does count.... A LOT I agree with this 110%. Constantly utilizing an imbalance in a competitive, multiplayer game is a breach of this etiquette. I don't think this can be logically or practically disputed. Just because something is in a game, doesn't mean it is good etiquette to utilize it. Anyone remember spawn camping in UT? I won't even mention the bomber in BF2 in this post...

Either way, I was responding to a comment made directly at me. You saw it, it mentioned using that cheap tactic to compensate for my lack of gaming skill, and I completely shredded all credibility of the comment, that's all

I love good-natured competition and fairness. The ground-based combat gaming on this server is second to none. To be honest, the hard-fought, dug-in, pitched battles I experience on this server are among my most enjoyable gaming experiences ever, and the majority of the TG community, that I know, share this opinion. It's intense!

I am blunt, I take responsibility for my actions, but I also confront coments made directly to them. If they are legit, then I have something to learn. If I think they are not legit, then I present them in the context that I see them in. Either way, neither of my posts is a flame, just presenting the "other side to the story

BHack · 10-09-2005, 12:27 PM

You guys know my stance on all this if you read my last "questionable tactics" thread.

But as it stands, landorin... A MEC chopper can hover over the TV station and pound anyone that spawns there according to TG official rules. The only spawn camping not allowed is related to UCB's (am I reading that rule right?).

I think the rules as stated now are as strict as they should be, adding more could inhibit the gameplay too far.

xTYBALTx · 10-09-2005, 01:41 PM

It is a waste of resources for the MEC chopper to focus solely on taking out the USMC chopper at takeoff. It will also run out of TV-guided missiles eventually, requiring a reload.

While we're on the subject, I'd just like to voice my agreement with StrikeFear that destroying enemy combat assets, even at UCB's, should be legal. It is not easy to do, requires forethought, planning, and skill - but most importantly it is in line with TG's mission of promoting teamwork.

**CingularDuality** · 10-09-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhack

But as it stands, landorin... A MEC chopper can hover over the TV station and pound anyone that spawns there according to TG official rules. The only spawn camping not allowed is related to UCB's (am I reading that rule right?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG BF2 Rules

Spawn Camping
On our BF2 server, spawn camping is not permitted.

"Spawn camping" requires a certain INTENT. To spawn camp, it must be your INTENT to EXPLOIT a player's post-spawn lack of orientation while attacking that player. You are sitting (camp), waiting to attack a player immediately after he enters gameplay (spawn). This is spawn camping, and it is not allowed on Tactical Gamer's BF2 server.

The rule is in the clarification on UCB assaults, but is applicable in other situations.

Eggplant999 · 10-09-2005, 05:35 PM

I think its a bit more lame when helo pilots are racking up 200 kills, than a guy trying to kill the helo when it spawns.

Strikeman · 10-09-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eggplant999

I think its a bit more lame when helo pilots are racking up 200 kills, than a guy trying to kill the helo when it spawns.

Try 200 points not 200 kills.

Can we close this thread already...jeezze. If your on the TV tower and you know your going to get lit up when you jump in the helo....don't get in.

10-08-2005, 08:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
Preston85 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,601	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? There really needs to be an offical statement about this, as it goes there is no clear rule saying it is illegal on TG servers. Having admins/SM all saying different things is just confusing...... Personally, if the MEC chopper is wasting its time focusing on the USMC cobra before its took off thats great, leaves the rest of your troops alone to defend the flags. Running blindly at the chopper is a waste of tickets, hide inside then get the AA on it and those .50 cals. Don't shoot me for saying this but I find "its not fair he kills me everytime before I take off" is a cop out and a frustrated reaction due to the mindset that they are the chopper crew that round so HAVE to fly it, they refuse to admit defeat that the enemy chopper has the better of them (not a fair fight but nevermind) so complain. I'm guilty of it, instead of finding the counter or thinking about the benifits its easier to complain. This isn't directed at you Landorin, it is just a general observation.

10-08-2005, 11:15 PM	#18 (permalink)
Lucky Shot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,639	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? I am not swayed that the chopper in Sharqi is so defenseless that it deserves a moratorium on being shot until it's in the air. It sits on a repair pad for gosh sakes, any hits it can take this side of destruction is repaired quickly. Once it gets in the air, it goes from Helpless to the most lethal killing machine on the level. When it's pounding the weak, we are just told, Use Teamwork, Suck it up. In response to that, I would encourage that team of 2 to use teamwork, suck it up, find a way around it. Let's be honest, the chopper team is not worried about Fair if they see an enemy squad and no enemy chopper support. If this is determined to Not Be Fair based on attacking things at the flag with no intent to capture the flag, then we need to totally re-examine the Shootout at the Karkand corral. We fire into a war zone into an area where people are constantly respawning with no intent to capture the flag. People are spawning in that area and here we are peppering it with Sniper shots, Bullets, AT rounds, Tank Rounds, APC shells and Artillery. I don't see a problem with this. They can spawn somewhere else. Denial of vehicles is better than the next extreme, occupation of vehicles by the enemy. Thats much more effective in terms of keeping the enemy down, it takes denial of assets to more than a 20 second respawn, to a Keep Away game. Which is not "Fair" but is acceptable. Be lucky that they didn't deny you the Chopper for an entire map. Say if I am on the Oman Beaches capturing the Rock Fort and I see an opposition APC at the next flag over, my area is clear (UAV). I will begin to pop tank shells into that APC at the next flag over as it is a strong weapon that would be used to deny me my next flag. Person in or not, that APC is going down. It will stay down until I have that next flag. In terms of shooting at great distances to take down a running target. I don't see a difference between killing people at the flag with the chopper with No Intent to take the flag and a sniper who sits on a crane with No Intent to take the flag. In both situations, there is the claim of thinning the herd so that other teammates can take it, denial of positioning, and draining tickets. No Difference. I realize this may stir the pot a bit. Lucky Shot Last edited by Lucky Shot; 10-09-2005 at 03:48 AM.

10-09-2005, 12:53 AM	#19 (permalink)
Phelan Ward Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: a sunny beach in florida Age: 21 Posts: 528	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? @ Luckyshot The helipad will not repair fast enough to stop the two quick shots of an AA emplacment or a volley of mini rockets from destroying the heli before it can get off the ground. The MEC helicopter is "the most lethal killing machine on the level", as the map is mostly infantry based. That MEC gun kills infantry far faster than the Cobra's, which is balanced by it's sub-par TV guided missles. Since there is very little armor on Sharqi, the missles aren't highly missed. I don't really care if they aren't trying to capture the flag and I don't think that what is being argued about here. If the MEC manage to capture the Cobra, oh well, I don't like it, i'll live with it, it won't make a huge difference in the outcome of the game anyway. There's no one in the APC so who cares? If there was, then so what, it's an enemy in an APC, he's asking to get shot at. He can MOVE if wants to avoid that problem, the helicopter cannot. I don't think the distance of the shot is any big deal. __________________

10-09-2005, 02:27 AM	#22 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? BF2 is like a good salad. If you bite into the chopper one round, and it is has a spawncamper in it, eat around it. There are plenty of other tasty, nutrious bits of tanks, Vodniks, backstabs, point-blank nade kills and other such mischef to fill up on. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

10-09-2005, 03:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
FPS_Douglas Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 33 Posts: 553	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? I gotta laugh at this whole thread. I was the person firing at the chopper taking off. I was just learning the TV missile for the first time, and it was done 4 or 5 times AT MOST, then we decided it was stupid with so few on the map, so we shifted to ground. If this is crap, whatever, it's nothing compared to what the TWO bombers did to us the map before when it wasn't more than a 10 on 10. And as for the comment "someone relies on these tactics to compensate his weak gaming skills".... whatever. This was the first time I ever really gunned in a chopper. If you wanna say that about my skills, you're talkin about a guy who's NEVER in the air. My skills speak for themselves. If you wanna talk about somethin like that, talk about people who never leave a bomber. I wish I'd have seen this thread before I talked with u today.

10-09-2005, 04:27 AM	#24 (permalink)
FPS_Douglas Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 33 Posts: 553	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? There is definately etiquette in multiplayer gaming. It is a competitive, social enviornment, and fairness does count.... A LOT I agree with this 110%. Constantly utilizing an imbalance in a competitive, multiplayer game is a breach of this etiquette. I don't think this can be logically or practically disputed. Just because something is in a game, doesn't mean it is good etiquette to utilize it. Anyone remember spawn camping in UT? I won't even mention the bomber in BF2 in this post... Either way, I was responding to a comment made directly at me. You saw it, it mentioned using that cheap tactic to compensate for my lack of gaming skill, and I completely shredded all credibility of the comment, that's all I love good-natured competition and fairness. The ground-based combat gaming on this server is second to none. To be honest, the hard-fought, dug-in, pitched battles I experience on this server are among my most enjoyable gaming experiences ever, and the majority of the TG community, that I know, share this opinion. It's intense! I am blunt, I take responsibility for my actions, but I also confront coments made directly to them. If they are legit, then I have something to learn. If I think they are not legit, then I present them in the context that I see them in. Either way, neither of my posts is a flame, just presenting the "other side to the story

10-09-2005, 12:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
BHack Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 27 Posts: 1,636	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? You guys know my stance on all this if you read my last "questionable tactics" thread. But as it stands, landorin... A MEC chopper can hover over the TV station and pound anyone that spawns there according to TG official rules. The only spawn camping not allowed is related to UCB's (am I reading that rule right?). I think the rules as stated now are as strict as they should be, adding more could inhibit the gameplay too far.

10-09-2005, 01:41 PM	#26 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? It is a waste of resources for the MEC chopper to focus solely on taking out the USMC chopper at takeoff. It will also run out of TV-guided missiles eventually, requiring a reload. While we're on the subject, I'd just like to voice my agreement with StrikeFear that destroying enemy combat assets, even at UCB's, should be legal. It is not easy to do, requires forethought, planning, and skill - but most importantly it is in line with TG's mission of promoting teamwork. __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

10-09-2005, 05:35 PM	#28 (permalink)
Eggplant999 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 307	Re: Is it allowed to spawn kill the helo on the tv station? I think its a bit more lame when helo pilots are racking up 200 kills, than a guy trying to kill the helo when it spawns.

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