Landorin

Hi all,

Is it allowed to kill the helo with another helo when it is still on the TV station and about to take off (spawn / take off kill)? Just got mass killed that way (they just waited nearby and kept killing and killing) after I got to TG from a ranked server and in the end I felt no difference between the ranked and the TG server really and decided to leave the server. I mean getting shot is ok but if they just camp the building till you get back on the roof got me real bored. Well done, I'd say, since there were so few people on the server already, now it's 2 less, I'm sure the rest will "thank" them for having even less players on the server.

=Sarc=

I believe that is considered spawn camping. Notify an admin and the player will be dealt with.

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perry

Doing it over and over is pretty bad -- you did get a name and have PM'd it to the admins, right?

Using that SAM site at the hotel and shooting the Cobra as soon as someone hops in it is just as bad.. At least IMHO. If the MEC chopper is just passing through and sees the Cobra about to take off, I don't much see a problem with it. But to camp that tv station and kill anyone that spawns there is a little low. They should, IMO, probably eliminate all the current threats and move on.

That tv station is weird, because the Cobra can be chased back and blown up as it tries to repair, then the MEC chopper can see someone on the roof, not be aware that they just spawned, and kill them. Or they could be shooting at someone that just fired an AT rocket and end up taking away a freshly spawned player as collateral damage. A tough situation for the chopper.. not saying that's what happened in this case, but I've been on both sides of the situation the past couple nights.

Friday night on Sharqi I was sitting at that hotel SAM site watching for the Cobra.. I'd get a lock when it went active but intentionally moved my crosshair away to break lock or held my fire until after it had gotten off the roof and had time to drop flares.

krusty-o

that was me firing at you perry - last night sharqi and Daqing were insane. I kept having my assault squad get low anytime you were around the construction site while we were holding it.

Anywho - sounds like u were getting camped Landorin. Hope you got the player's name. Don't submit it here, but def turn him to a admin.

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Preston85

That spawn should of been a UCB anyway...

It is quite possible for MEC to blow up the chopper on take of with a TV missile from a good distance, then fly around the other flags clearing up, and have enough time to make it back to a position to again TV missile the helicopter as it takes off...

Low - yes, Camping - no, you arn't staying in that area but it is a definatly questionable tactic, I would say its the job of USMC to take down the helicopter, there are a couple of .50 cal jeeps to use + AA gun.... destroy the enemy chopper or just force it to retreat to get healed then take off.

When I fly the cobra I always get a supply drop on another part of the map so I can heal safely and catch out anyone who trys to take me out at the helipads, everyone knows where the pads are but they don't know where the supply boxes are, if the enemy chopper camps the tv station I can often give my gunner a flank shot...

StrikeFear

Wait a minute...
1. It's not a UCB
2. You're not spawn-camping - anyone getting in a vehicle has passed the point at which he is experiencing spawn-in disorientation

What the heck??? Have we lost our minds?? I started the Gentleman's Agreement thread, but I don't see ANYTHING wrong with using force to suppress the enemy's assets.
OMG! If they can't take you out, or control your AA position, then you have every right to prevent them from even taking off.

I don't get it....

There's nothing low or underhanded about it. It's WAR!!!.
If you gain a legitimate, non-exploitive tactical advantage, you press it to the win!! That's what the game's all about, even here at TG.

If you control terrain or assets SO WELL that you can suppress them from even manning their assets, you are going to win, and that's what it's about - well done. It's up to them to regain some control so they can use their assets.
This is not some care-bear arena where we agree to let the other side play with their toys. It's a priviledge to even STAY ON THE MAP, and a priviledge you must EARN with blood.

If you want to play with that tank, you better keep the enemy air assets off it, and take out AT infantry.
You wanna play with arty, CO? You better defend your assets.
You wanna fly the helo? Better suppress enemy AA and secure the heli-pad.

Don't go begging the other team to leave you alone so you can lift off so you can go kill them.

...crazy...

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perry

Heh, if it was Friday night Sharqi and I was in the MEC chopper then I wasn't much of a threat. The SL of the chopper squad refused to spawn down with the chopper so I spent much of the time flying by myself... He'd spawn everywhere BUT the beach and I'd have to risk life & limb trying to pick him up -- attempting to land at the listening post was not something I wanted to attempt! And I was having such terrible lag issues that I was just kinda rubberbanding through the sky. I did have him blast the construction site when I did manage to get him onboard though (and we'd get blown up and he'd spawn elsewhere and we'd start the game over again.. sigh).

=Sarc=

Hmmm, good point, StrikeFear. If the base is not a UCB then it's fair once the person has spawned and entered a vehicle. It's only against the rules if the base is uncapturable.

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icky

Agreed Strikefear. Nothing illegal about it.

It is a little lame, but that's all.

If this is happening to you, just take a short break before getting back in the chopper. Unless the other chopper is insanely patient, it won't sit idle for long, then you will have your opportunity to pound him for being so nasty.

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Strikeman

I think this has been discussed before. Since the TV station is not a UCB, anything goes. I remember when I brought up this point last, someone made a remark that "Well if the guy keeps on killing you maybe you should go out on foot and take down the AA site".

Does it suck...Yes

Is there anything you can do about it....Yes

Either dont fly helo....or.....get the bastard who keeps killing you...Better yet join a ground squad and capture that base so they dont have the AA.

Landorin

Thanks for the answer, guys.

And Strikefear: you didn't read my posting properly. I wasn't asking for care bear or anything, I didn't even say it's illegal, I actually asked if it's illegal or not, no more no less (but it's still lame in any case).
By the way, you're right, this isn't carebear arena but you know what? This is not war either; it's nothing but a game, not war or anything. If this game is really WAR to you then no one can help you anymore. In other words: don't take it too seriously, this is a game, no more, no less. I guess if you would have went into a real life war you wouldn't even dare to say anything like that since BF2 IS, after all, toys to play with (a game) but nothing anywhere close to war.
Oh and this sentence:
They weren't even controling half the map. The helo just got there and had its fun at killing everything on the roof all the time. If someone relies on these tactics to compensate his weak gaming skills, so be it, for everyone else it's quite lame since they would usually use the helo to assist in the battle near their own squads.

Preston85

It could be compared to Kubra Dam, if you take down the enemy plane when you are USMC it is possible to keep your air advantage by bombing the enemy runway to prevent the enemy plane taking off again...

A little lame but if you get Dark Viper and Co on the ground you have to keep them there, or you have lost your advantage.

Theres examples of this on every side that has air assets in none UCB bases.

War and Game, there is a difference but isn't the fun of the game in finding counters to the enemy? If they wanna whore the Tv station let them, then bring 3 vodiks and rape them

Phelan Ward

There is a double standard here, really. If I sat at the end of the runway with an AT rocket, shooting planes at take off, I would be labelled a spawn camper and banned for a week or so. Yet if I sit in an AA site destroying choppers before they take off...well thats ok because we can do something about that...

Give me a break StrikeFear, if someone camped your runway you'd be on TS in a matter of seconds.

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Bommando

This is unsportsmanlike and against TG philosophy in my opinion.

Sure, there are countermeasures and the camper can be taken down, but I strongly disagree with harrassing air assets until they have taken off. They are not like other vehicles where they can just start moving straight away. They have a "warm up" time where they are helpless. If you feel like you aren't good enough to be challenged in a fair fight, then you might need some practice.

I DO consider this spawn camping. If you want to stop the Cobra from taking off, you should capture the TV tower CP.

Iamthefallen

I agree that specifically hovering over the TV tower and waiting for a pilot and gunner to get in before sending a TV missile their way is cheap.

But is it also unsportsmanlike for .50 cals on jeeps to fire on choppers as soon as the blades start turning? Think Zatar Wetlands for instance where an attacking team will open fire as soon as defenders occupy the chopper.

The rules are the rules, below is just a an opinion, so take it for what it's worth (probably not much):
I think the rules are fairly clear, unless it's a UCB, denying the enemy their assets is a valid tactic. It's sometimes cheezy I'll agree, but still a valid tactic. Taking advantage of spawn disorientation however, is not. And the MEC chopper has to stay on the right side of that line while hovering the TV tower.

Would it be illegal to take out the Cobra on the TV tower while it's empty just to deny its use to the enemy? If that in turn is verboten, would the same go for denying the other team a (currently empty) tank?

In other rhetorical questions of the day: Would we have this discussion about a chopper hovering over any other base denying the enemy their vehicles? What makes the TV station and the Cobra special?

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