kin3

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This comes from: “a Marine son sends back a report with a lot of helpful intel”
Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour in early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves the Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.

Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons, equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine with a bird ' s eye views and opinions:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it is lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of ****. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that ' s fun in the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga.: Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect.
5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!). Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts them down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. Ma deuce is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put them down with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45s are being re-issued en masse.

8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcocks record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost unbearable in the summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head shots whenever possible. All the bull**** about the body armor making our guys vulnerable to the IEDs was a non-starter. The IED explosions are enormous and body armor doesn ' t make any difference at all in most cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We ' ve all seen the videos.

13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are Surefires, and the troops love them. Invaluable for night urban operations. Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.

I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it is the WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

Bad guy weapons:
1) Mostly AK47s . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly shoots like ****. Undisciplined spray and pray type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran, again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let ' s just say they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple, reliable and as common as dog****. The enemy responded to our up-armored humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan ' s area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the explosions are enormous. You ' re not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately, they are much more sophisticated shape charges (Iranian) specifically designed to penetrate armor. Fact: Most of the ready made IEDs are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That 's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan ' s NCOs lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage inside the wire. Jordan ' s base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and Google earth for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys?:
Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly foreigners, non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the line which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we ' ve been hitting hard for the last few months. Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in sacrifice squads. Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.) These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they have been fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad are! a ! and south, most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt., the police forces and the Army. The have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80s. Most of the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.

Bad Guy Tactics:
When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Aks and RPGs directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan ' s base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and that ' s the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo ' s (Allahs Waiting Room). We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast movers, mostly Marine F-18s, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we ' re seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber ****. The new strategy is simple: attrition.

The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).

The first thing our guys are told is don ' t get captured. They know that if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American serviceman. This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don ' t give a **** about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not an option.

The Iraqis are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren ' t worth a ****. Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi ' s use of suicide bombers, en masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake. Many Iraqis were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqis are sick of the insurgent attacks against civilians. The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.

According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then see **** like Are we losing in Iraq on TV and the print media. For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there aren ' t enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there).

Anyway guys, that ' s it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.
(Signature intentionally deleted)

__________________
The Old Guy
kin3

Sabre Six

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing, Kin.

I guess none of this really surprises me. New is not necessarily better.

__________________

Strag

Awesome post. Thank you (and your son), kin.

I wonder if, with the HK 416 upper and with better ammo, the M16-series would perform acceptably in sand (and overall).

I wonder how long it'll be before we switch back to a .45 caliber pistol as standard issue (M1911A2, anyone? ).

I wonder if .gov now wishes they hadn't destroyed so many of those beautiful M-14s years ago!

SuperScythe

Thanks for the great info. It's nice to get a real view of what's happening over there & not the distorted media's view. It's worrying news about the bounty thing though.

As for the info, it's wierd to think the older weapons are better, but I suppose they are more simplistic & less complicated & therefore more reliable.

Good to know you guys are kicking ass! I wish I had a kill to death ratio of 20:1. LOL

I wish your son good luck for his next tour.

leejo

Great post. Thanks.

jepzilla

Newer American weapons are machined to much higher tolerances than Soviet or older American weapons, so they're much more susceptible to jamming due to sand. I think it's about time they sat down and started thinking about designing a replacement for the M16 in these urban desert situations.

Strag

The 9mm Luger round has been around for over a hundred years now. We knew long ago that the FMJ round lacked stopping power, but we decided to standardize with NATO anyway.

The M-16 itself isn't really "new" technology. It was designed in the late 1950s, and was in turn based on a few other designs coupled with lightweight materials. The main problem is that, even in an ideally clean environment, it's a very dirty weapon. The foul gas used to cycle the action is actually dumped INTO the action. Put the weapon in an extremely dirty, dusty environment, and it ain't good. Other weapons (like the M-14 and the AK-47) use an intermediary piston to cycle the action, so they're inherently cleaner.

As for the current 5.56mm round......well, it's a varmint round. With the right bullet, it can work very well against humans within a certain range. It'll probably never be very effective against buildings, though.

Strag

jep, do a Google search on "HK 416" -- IMO, this would fit the bill, especially since we could keep using quite a few parts already in the supply system.

HellRazor61

Well I can deffinitley speak on the M-16 jamming problem! When I was in Iraq at the beginning of the War from Mar 2003 to Feb 2004 I noticed as well that the M-16 or M-4 which is what I carried performed horribly in the desert environment for one thing you could not fully load your magazines to 30 rounds or they typically would not feed properly when trying to charge the weapon, 26 was the most I could load in and still sometimes they would jam. Also one needed to spottless clean their weapon each day or it would not work properly. Of course another problem is that the M-16/M4 does not fire the proper ammo it was designed for. The black powder ball ammo that it fires leaves heavy residue the original ammo was smokeless therefore left no residue but the military said it was to expensive so they replaced it with this lesser crap. Hence forth the M-16 family of weapons was doomed from the start. Then of course dont get me started on the wimpy ammo that it fires 5.56mmN is nothing more than .22cal ammo with a military charge aka .223cal. I have personally saw men get shot with this 7or8 times and still keep charging. Unfortunatly they did not learn their lesson the the new OICW will fire the same BS Ammo and the thing looks bulky as hell.
Just my 2 pennies!

__________________



Operation Iraqi Freedom Vet "101st Airborne Division(AirAssault)"

Wulfyn

To be fair it's not just the M16 that has had trouble with desert environments. Lots of weapons don't cope at all well with it, right up to jets which are very weather - temperamental.

Similar problems have been the case with the SA80 (or L85a/b) (the medic unlock). It is an extremely accurate weapon (the British army has to redesign their marksmanship grading in the 70's when it was introduced as even rubbish shooters were breaking records), and with the SUSAT scope provides great range and stopping power. The problem is that they are over-glorified doorstops, as a moderate cross breeze will cause them to stop working. Mostly iron out on the mark 2 version which is being rolled out in the UK now (of course these may be replaced again in 2 years by the G3...). The v2 was recently described as being just like the v1, except it worked.

Compare this to the AK's, which tend to perform less well but are robust as.. well as you'd expect a state that focused on mass production and man power to produce. I have heard of (but not seen) a video doing the rounds on the net where they cover an AK in sand, dip it in oil/tar, and set it alight, and it still fires afterwards.

I guess it would be like taking a F1 car to a rally...

__________________

jepzilla

I don't know much about the HK 416, but I don't think it solves the problem with it being underpowered. A lot of the problem is the ammo, AFAIK. There needs to be a new standardised size between the 7.62 NATO and the 5.56 NATO. Maybe a carbine based on the M-14, but with something closer to the AK-47's 7.62x39 than the 7.62 NATO.

But I really don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll leave this discussion to people who do.

HellRazor61

While I do agree with you Wulfyn I am aware of many other problems with other weapons systems. I was just speaking on what I knew from my own experience. Most of the weapons systems in use by Nato today were designed during the cold war and were intended for woodland use. Therefore it is not a surprise that this stuff doesnt do well in the sand. Hopefully with the introduction of all the new land warrior equipment the developers made sure it performed in the desert since it seems like all the fighting is going to be in the Middle East for a while!

__________________



Operation Iraqi Freedom Vet "101st Airborne Division(AirAssault)"

Strag

Agreed. The current US M855 round, coupled with the short 14.5" barrel of the M4/M4A1, is the worst of combinations.

There is a fairly new round currently in limited use called the Mk262 Mod 1, which uses a heavier, Open Tipped Match (OTM) bullet, and it's generating positive feedback. This round can be fired from unmodified M16A2s, M16A3s, M16A4s, M4s, and M4A1s using existing magazines. It would solve a lot of problems, especially if adopted in conjunction with the HK 416 upper receiver.

There is also a fairly new round called the 6.8mm SPC that has been used successfully by Special Forces troops, although it does not seem to be under consideration for widespread adoption. This round cannot be fired from unmodified M16A2s, M16A3s, M16A4s, M4s, and M4A1s, and it requires the use of a different magazine, but it has great ballistics.

KeithMann

Am I the only one who questions the veracity of all of that?

__________________
|TG-1stMIP|Manner
1st Mechanized Infantry Platoon (C-Team)

Please donate your spare CPU cycles to help fight diseases like cancer.

jepzilla

I guess so. It all seems consistent with what I know.