Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers

ABRA · 12-16-2005, 03:52 PM

Ok guys you did awesome getting those rosters and free-agent sign-ups in to me. We've got nearly 80 players at the moment with new free agents signing up everyday. So even if a quarter of us can't make a match we're still filling a server. Congratulations on making this one of the biggest BF2 leagues on the internet. The biggest Cyber Athlete League I know about is 12 v 12 for BF2.

I want to talk about all those little issues and decisions that need to be made before we can start having matches. This doesn’t need to be an all-inclusive final discussion as we’ll be having a preseason BETA of sorts to figure all this stuff out.

Only one thing is non-negotiable and that is that this is a TG league. It will adhere not only to the usual TG server rules but also to the TG principles. Matches will follow the spirit of the TG rules and the TG desire to play in a concerted tactical fashion free from the frustrations of immature players, stat-whores and those tactics we have as a community deemed less desirable in threads like the Gentleman’s Agreement. The gameplay in this league will strive for the TG ideal. As we often say about server #1, if you don’t like how we play at TG there are plenty of public servers out there for you to play on otherwise. Well for this league, if you want to keep skirting the rules and not pursue the stated TG principles, go play on server #1. That tag in front of everyone’s name means something and this league will exemplify that meaning.

Anyway, to the issues of rosters and slots. While we're lucky to have to deal with it, there is a possibility of there being fewer slots in a given match than there all players looking to play some days. I'm asking you the community how do you think we should handle this?

This is how I see it working per team:
1 CO slot assigned based on the rotating CO division
"X" number of jet slots based on the rotating jet division
"Y" number of helo slots based on the rotating helo division
6 slots assigned to each squad based on the rotating squad schedule

But not every squad has exactly 6 members and even if they did perfect attendance at every match by every player is not going to be the case. So maybe the smaller rosters need some depth to accommodate the no-shows. It would on the one hand be up to a given squad how much depth it has based on how committed its members are to attending and not wanting to have to sit out matches because of TOO much depth. On the other hand a squad with too little depth that is unable to field a full squad may be considered by some players and COs as letting their team down.

Should we have a minimum roster size above and beyond 6 to ensure a squad's ability to fill its allotted squad or is it utterly ridiculous to think a SpecOp squad like say the 4th with its 3 signed up members needs a full 6 man squad to carry out sniper operations and asset destruction?

If yes how many players should the roster minimum be set at?

At the opposite end of the spectrum what about these bigger rosters? Should we really expect all 14 of the 2nd to share a measly 6 slots? Or should we give them 2 squads to fill so they have 12 slots? Or maybe something in between as some SLs actually prefer squads with less than 6 players?

Should the big rosters even be considered in their own tier, in their own squad rotation apart from the other squads? With different slot allotment and roster policies than the others? This would allow larger squads to always fight together rather than sometimes fighting against one another (as would be the case if they were split). But it would also make scheduling and win-loss record-keeping more difficult and possibly even give one tier an edge over the other. If this were the case what should be the cutoff for being considered a “big” roster.

Then there are the free-agents. How should they be given slots in the matches? Should they be signed to a specific roster or form their own? Or should they float in a separate pool of players that fills vacancies in other squads’ rosters? Could the possible solution to non-supporting member(SM) participation be that only SMs can be rostered and thus guaranteed a slot? The non-SMs would therefore be in this pool that is ranked each match on a rotating basis and we would use to fill the slot vacancies.

ABRA · 12-16-2005, 04:01 PM

Oh and this is a good moment to check the master player list and make sure you're signed up for the CO, jet, and/or helo division. You should be signed up if you ever want to see the inside of a jet or attack helo or CO screen in a league match. And yes you can do both, all or none. Lemme repeat that for the cheap seats:

You can be in the CO, jet division or helo division AND any other division(s) AND still play for your squad when you're not COing or piloting.

We haven't finalized the format for the aircraft leagues so if you even want to bomb for a jet or gun for a helo, sign up for those divisions.

Code:

Name                Division*           Affiliation      Kill Name if different

Rostered:
Bommando                -                  7th
AzrealDarkmoon          -                  7th
jaymind                 -                  7th
B                       -                  7th
Tac-D                   -                  7th
Shiner                  -                  7th
Santa                   -                  7th
Tybalt                  -                  7th
kin3                    -                  7th
ABRA                    -                  7th
nox                     -                  7th
RGM-79N_GM_CUstom       -                  7th.12
Seppy(capt.)            -                 1337th
Dr. Lily                -                 1337th
Shakey                  -                 1337th
Fallen                  -                 1337th
Schemer                 -                 1337th
Bodark                  -                 1337th
Sid                     -                 1337th
Jepzilla                -                 1337th.8  
black death5(capt.)  jet, helo             4th                 |TG-4th|Acid
HellRazor61           helo g               4th 
Aculle01                -                  4th.3
John CANavar(capt.)     -                 1st-MIP
DrunkenSoul             -                 1st-MIP
SgtDuke                 -                 1st-MIP
KeithMann               -                 1st-MIP
Faultline               -                 1st-MIP
Coridon                 -                 1st-MIP
Leadinyourhead          -                 1st-MIP
Steeler                 -                 1st-MIP
xRansackx               -                 1st-MIP
Tacc2                   -                 1st-MIP.10
Wulfyn(capt.)           -                Banhammers
asch                    -                Banhammers
Beatnik                 -                Banhammers
Bubba                   -                Banhammers
icky                    -                Banhammers
JMJ                    jet               Banhammers
percu                   -                Banhammers.7
Trooper(capt.)          -                  2nd
Turbo                   -                  2nd
Steel_Penguin       jet, helo(g)           2nd               |TG-2nd|Penguin
Pickle                  -                  2nd      
BaneII                  -                  2nd
Strag                   -                  2nd               
Bubba                   -                  2nd
Sugar                   -                  2nd
Sloppy                  -                  2nd
JusB                    -                  2nd               
SassyOne                CO                 2nd  
Vodka?                  -                  2nd  
Munchkin              CO, jet              2nd
CymBa                  helo                2nd.14
Sabre Six(capt.)                          42nd
Generic 42nd Member #2                    42nd
Generic 42nd Member #3                    42nd
Generic 42nd Member #4                    42nd
Generic 42nd Member #5                    42nd
Generic 42nd Member #6                    42nd.6
                                            ..60


Unaffiliated free agents avaliable for recruitment:
Hero                    -                   -
RedBane                 -                   -
visuvius                -                   -
Bhack                   -                   -
thebleakaffinity        -                   -
Drizzid                 -                   -
sordavie                -                   -
WhiskeySix            helo(g)               -
Evanz0rz              helo g                - 
Bodofooko              helo                 -
gfhegel21               -                   -
TheVegeet               -                   -                 
SgtHoman                -                   -
gunjunkie         jet g, helo(g)            -
shawn                   -                   -                      bork02
sgtDFuller              -                   -
boudreux                -                   -
Swedish_Cowboy_Tx  jet, helo(g)             -                 [TG] Swedish_Cowboy
Syn                     -                   -.19 
                                            ..79
*Divisons are CO, jet(pilot, bomber), helo(pilot), 
helo g(helo gunner only).  Helo(g) denotes ability as 
both pilot and gunner in helos.  Right now only the CO 
division is definite.  Jet and helodivisions are open 
for discussion.  Everyone is in the squad division in 
addition to any other divisions they wish to participate in.

SassyOne · 12-16-2005, 06:20 PM

I think for the sake of making this as simple as possible, since it is our first time out with this type of event, we should have only one tier of play (still have the different divisions though, just keep everyone else on the same level.) Players would sign up as a permanent squad make-up with a set number of 4, 5, or 6 members. (Even free-agent SMs would make their own permanent squad for the purposes of the league). They should gather a list of 3 or 4 alternates that would play with them if one of their regulars could not make a scrim. The alternates could be players who play in another league squad, but could only fill in if their regular squad wasn't needed that match. There should be a limit of times a squad can use an alternate. After they have exhausted that number of times, they would just have to play a man down. You would just need to make sure matches were set up so that all squads got to play the same number of rounds.

Also, I think it would be cool if we had some kind of league challenge system, where all the league squads that belong to the same in-house squad could challenge all the league squads from another in-house squad. For example, if the 2nd fields 2 squads, they could challenge the squads that the 42nd fields to a smaller game, like 12v12 or whatever. It would be a more informal game, more as a practice than a real competition and would let each in-house squad have its own team, which won't be as likely within league play.

Anyhow, I'm just tossing ideas out. I'll prolly post more when I've had some more time to think about it.

Kisses!
Sassy

*Reason for edit: Didn't realize the league is trying to field 32v32! Thanks shawn!

shawn · 12-16-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyOne

Anyhow, I'm just tossing ideas out. I'll prolly post more when I've had some more time to think about it. In the meantime, maybe check into how CAL and other 12v12 ladders work it.

i think we're trying to go 32 vs 32 with the idea that as many people as possible play every time.
The easiest thing to do would be make 10 squads of 8 people each (or however it works out when you take out the jet/helo squads which will have their own rotation i guess?). Then in those squads they work out themselves who plays every week. ie a different 2 people sit each game so everyone gets equal play time.
Obviously there are problems with this idea. Some guys in the inhouse squads will be broken up. And im not sure how to work the jet/helo into it.
I dont know, im sure some of you smart people can think up a better idea but at any rate there a few things that i think have to be included:
-as close as possible everyone gets to play the same amount
-for the scoring system to work in its present form (a possible change? dont know) the squads have the same people week to week.
continuing to think on the subject....

ABRA · 12-16-2005, 10:13 PM

For some reason I keep thinking that just because I post a quick sentence or two in some obscure corner of the forum about a given league concept that everyone knows and understands it from that point forward. I dunno why. Partly because I keep thinking about these same problems over and over I guess.

Anyway, since this is not the case I took perry's suggestion and started a BF2 League section at the Tactical Wiki. Interested parties should check it out to see what I have in mind. I'm going to upload everything I've thought of thus far and consider that our rough draft. Then as we discuss things in this thread I'll amend it to reflect the community's wishes when they differ from the rough draft.

While I will step in here to give my opinion I want to largely let you guys discuss things first.

ABRA · 12-16-2005, 10:20 PM

Oh and yeah. Even at half attendance we'd still be having 20 v 20 matches right now. I don't think 32 v 32 matches will be uncommon.

ALSO, right now we have exactly two COs, SassyOne and munchkin. I can't quite figure this one out. I look over the player list and I can count 10 people I know off the top of my head who CO. Sooner you guys sign up the sooner I can post a match schedule. We've gotten the green light from Apo to do this. We could be having the first match on the events server tonight as far as he's concerned.

Official word is that non-SMs can particpate whenever there is room and vacancy after the SMs are in. So it looks to me like in any given match about 10-15 non-SMs will be admitted(based on a 25% absence rate among the 60 SMs signed up currently).

munchkin · 12-17-2005, 12:49 AM

Sassy v Munchkin - CO Grudge Match
Two enter the cage, only one leaves!

sgtDFuller · 12-17-2005, 01:01 AM

Hey ABRA, I am just happy to be on the roster. I will fill in at anytime anywhere, of course unless I happen to be at work. If you need me, I will be there, jsut let me know.

Trooper · 12-17-2005, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchkin

Sassy v Munchkin - CO Grudge Match
Two enter the cage, only one leaves!

as long as there is mud involved im all for it.....would be fun to play in too..

**gunjunkie** · 12-17-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchkin

Sassy v Munchkin - CO Grudge Match
Two enter the cage, only one leaves!

And the rest of us die trying...

John CANavar · 12-17-2005, 11:13 AM

I guess I might offer a solution.

They key here is "fairness". Any member of this league (whether he/she is a member of crowded in-house squad or a small one) should have an equal opportunity to play, i.e. should not wait any longer than another league player to join the next game.

Here is the solution:

- We have 64 slots to fill

- Lets say there are 5 teams. Numbers in brackets indiciate number of players in each team

A [5]
B [20]
C [10]
D [15]
E (unaffiliated) [30]

Total: 80

- Each team will deploy players according to the percentage it represents in total number of league players. For example:

Team A: (5/80)*100 = 6.25%
(6.25*64)/100 = 4
....
....
....
Team E: (30/80)*100 = 37.5%
(37.5*64)/100 = 24

Team A and E can deploy 4 and 24 players respectively. Each team will rotate its players for the next match. As you can see a player in team A or E has the same opportunity to play in the league no matter how big his/her team is.

ABRA · 12-18-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonehead

I'm interested, where do I sign? :-)

Follow this link for instructions.

ABRA · 12-18-2005, 11:58 PM

Firstly let me direct you to the TacticalWiki Section on the League. There's a lot of information up there. None of it is really finalized so if you have any ideas on how to improve them post them in here so we can discuss them. As you can see I think we'll be adopting CANavar's slot allotment model with a few modifications if there are no other opinion on it.

I need to poll you guys on what game-type you want to see used in league matches. Before I post the poll I need to know what mods and expansions you want to nominate so I don't leave any out. The poll will be wide open and everyone will vote and the game-types they want.

Then the matches will be scheduled in the various game-types based on the results. It'll be proportional so if one mod gets 2/3 the votes it'll be used in 2/3 the matches. I'm not sure but I think I'm going to weight the results slightly to exaggerate the results.

I.e. the majority game type will have a number of matches not exactly proportional but proportional adjusted by a multiplier based off of the percentage of the vote it got. So the majority mod will be that the much more popular while the minority will be that the much more rare. It's basically some majoritarianism so that the bulk of the players are enjoying the bulk of the games rather than most people suffering through the 5th match that month on another obscure mod because one person voted for it.

What do you think, one vote one match, or should I slightly expand the majority winners and minimize the minority game-types(rounding should do this to an extent already)?

Santa · 12-19-2005, 12:46 AM

I didnt realize we could sign up for CO yet. Theres nothing more fun than COing a scrim, so im in for that.

aculle01 · 12-19-2005, 01:13 PM

My only question is what happens to um...me when the HellRazor and Black Death (aka Acid) take to the air and I remain on the ground? Just wondering as I dont mind running around getting exercise alone but would like to help wherever and whenever necessary.

12-16-2005, 03:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers Ok guys you did awesome getting those rosters and free-agent sign-ups in to me. We've got nearly 80 players at the moment with new free agents signing up everyday. So even if a quarter of us can't make a match we're still filling a server. Congratulations on making this one of the biggest BF2 leagues on the internet. The biggest Cyber Athlete League I know about is 12 v 12 for BF2. I want to talk about all those little issues and decisions that need to be made before we can start having matches. This doesn’t need to be an all-inclusive final discussion as we’ll be having a preseason BETA of sorts to figure all this stuff out. Only one thing is non-negotiable and that is that this is a TG league. It will adhere not only to the usual TG server rules but also to the TG principles. Matches will follow the spirit of the TG rules and the TG desire to play in a concerted tactical fashion free from the frustrations of immature players, stat-whores and those tactics we have as a community deemed less desirable in threads like the Gentleman’s Agreement. The gameplay in this league will strive for the TG ideal. As we often say about server #1, if you don’t like how we play at TG there are plenty of public servers out there for you to play on otherwise. Well for this league, if you want to keep skirting the rules and not pursue the stated TG principles, go play on server #1. That tag in front of everyone’s name means something and this league will exemplify that meaning. Anyway, to the issues of rosters and slots. While we're lucky to have to deal with it, there is a possibility of there being fewer slots in a given match than there all players looking to play some days. I'm asking you the community how do you think we should handle this? This is how I see it working per team: 1 CO slot assigned based on the rotating CO division "X" number of jet slots based on the rotating jet division "Y" number of helo slots based on the rotating helo division 6 slots assigned to each squad based on the rotating squad schedule But not every squad has exactly 6 members and even if they did perfect attendance at every match by every player is not going to be the case. So maybe the smaller rosters need some depth to accommodate the no-shows. It would on the one hand be up to a given squad how much depth it has based on how committed its members are to attending and not wanting to have to sit out matches because of TOO much depth. On the other hand a squad with too little depth that is unable to field a full squad may be considered by some players and COs as letting their team down. Should we have a minimum roster size above and beyond 6 to ensure a squad's ability to fill its allotted squad or is it utterly ridiculous to think a SpecOp squad like say the 4th with its 3 signed up members needs a full 6 man squad to carry out sniper operations and asset destruction? If yes how many players should the roster minimum be set at? At the opposite end of the spectrum what about these bigger rosters? Should we really expect all 14 of the 2nd to share a measly 6 slots? Or should we give them 2 squads to fill so they have 12 slots? Or maybe something in between as some SLs actually prefer squads with less than 6 players? Should the big rosters even be considered in their own tier, in their own squad rotation apart from the other squads? With different slot allotment and roster policies than the others? This would allow larger squads to always fight together rather than sometimes fighting against one another (as would be the case if they were split). But it would also make scheduling and win-loss record-keeping more difficult and possibly even give one tier an edge over the other. If this were the case what should be the cutoff for being considered a “big” roster. Then there are the free-agents. How should they be given slots in the matches? Should they be signed to a specific roster or form their own? Or should they float in a separate pool of players that fills vacancies in other squads’ rosters? Could the possible solution to non-supporting member(SM) participation be that only SMs can be rostered and thus guaranteed a slot? The non-SMs would therefore be in this pool that is ranked each match on a rotating basis and we would use to fill the slot vacancies. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

12-16-2005, 06:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
SassyOne Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sugar Land, TX Age: 27 Posts: 273	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers I think for the sake of making this as simple as possible, since it is our first time out with this type of event, we should have only one tier of play (still have the different divisions though, just keep everyone else on the same level.) Players would sign up as a permanent squad make-up with a set number of 4, 5, or 6 members. (Even free-agent SMs would make their own permanent squad for the purposes of the league). They should gather a list of 3 or 4 alternates that would play with them if one of their regulars could not make a scrim. The alternates could be players who play in another league squad, but could only fill in if their regular squad wasn't needed that match. There should be a limit of times a squad can use an alternate. After they have exhausted that number of times, they would just have to play a man down. You would just need to make sure matches were set up so that all squads got to play the same number of rounds. Also, I think it would be cool if we had some kind of league challenge system, where all the league squads that belong to the same in-house squad could challenge all the league squads from another in-house squad. For example, if the 2nd fields 2 squads, they could challenge the squads that the 42nd fields to a smaller game, like 12v12 or whatever. It would be a more informal game, more as a practice than a real competition and would let each in-house squad have its own team, which won't be as likely within league play. Anyhow, I'm just tossing ideas out. I'll prolly post more when I've had some more time to think about it. Kisses! Sassy Reason for edit: Didn't realize the league is trying to field 32v32! Thanks shawn! __________________ [age-c1][tog-c1][tg-c1][ma-c2][medic] [command][at][conduct][tpf-c1] Last edited by SassyOne; 12-16-2005 at 08:53 PM.*

12-16-2005, 10:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers For some reason I keep thinking that just because I post a quick sentence or two in some obscure corner of the forum about a given league concept that everyone knows and understands it from that point forward. I dunno why. Partly because I keep thinking about these same problems over and over I guess. Anyway, since this is not the case I took perry's suggestion and started a BF2 League section at the Tactical Wiki. Interested parties should check it out to see what I have in mind. I'm going to upload everything I've thought of thus far and consider that our rough draft. Then as we discuss things in this thread I'll amend it to reflect the community's wishes when they differ from the rough draft. While I will step in here to give my opinion I want to largely let you guys discuss things first. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

12-16-2005, 10:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers Oh and yeah. Even at half attendance we'd still be having 20 v 20 matches right now. I don't think 32 v 32 matches will be uncommon. ALSO, right now we have exactly two COs, SassyOne and munchkin. I can't quite figure this one out. I look over the player list and I can count 10 people I know off the top of my head who CO. Sooner you guys sign up the sooner I can post a match schedule. We've gotten the green light from Apo to do this. We could be having the first match on the events server tonight as far as he's concerned. Official word is that non-SMs can particpate whenever there is room and vacancy after the SMs are in. So it looks to me like in any given match about 10-15 non-SMs will be admitted(based on a 25% absence rate among the 60 SMs signed up currently). __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

12-17-2005, 12:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
munchkin Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 17 Posts: 2,271	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers Sassy v Munchkin - CO Grudge Match Two enter the cage, only one leaves! __________________ [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1] \|TG-2nd\|munchkin Nec aspera terrent.

12-17-2005, 01:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
sgtDFuller Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kaukauna, WI Age: 37 Posts: 197	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers Hey ABRA, I am just happy to be on the roster. I will fill in at anytime anywhere, of course unless I happen to be at work. If you need me, I will be there, jsut let me know. __________________ \|TG-Irr\|sgtDFuller The Irregulars @ TacticalWiki The Irregulars Sub Forum Server Rules

12-17-2005, 11:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
John CANavar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 3,405	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers I guess I might offer a solution. They key here is "fairness". Any member of this league (whether he/she is a member of crowded in-house squad or a small one) should have an equal opportunity to play, i.e. should not wait any longer than another league player to join the next game. Here is the solution: - We have 64 slots to fill - Lets say there are 5 teams. Numbers in brackets indiciate number of players in each team A [5] B [20] C [10] D [15] E (unaffiliated) [30] Total: 80 - Each team will deploy players according to the percentage it represents in total number of league players. For example: Team A: (5/80)100 = 6.25% (6.2564)/100 = 4 .... .... .... Team E: (30/80)100 = 37.5% (37.564)/100 = 24 Team A and E can deploy 4 and 24 players respectively. Each team will rotate its players for the next match. As you can see a player in team A or E has the same opportunity to play in the league no matter how big his/her team is.

12-18-2005, 11:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers Firstly let me direct you to the TacticalWiki Section on the League. There's a lot of information up there. None of it is really finalized so if you have any ideas on how to improve them post them in here so we can discuss them. As you can see I think we'll be adopting CANavar's slot allotment model with a few modifications if there are no other opinion on it. I need to poll you guys on what game-type you want to see used in league matches. Before I post the poll I need to know what mods and expansions you want to nominate so I don't leave any out. The poll will be wide open and everyone will vote and the game-types they want. Then the matches will be scheduled in the various game-types based on the results. It'll be proportional so if one mod gets 2/3 the votes it'll be used in 2/3 the matches. I'm not sure but I think I'm going to weight the results slightly to exaggerate the results. I.e. the majority game type will have a number of matches not exactly proportional but proportional adjusted by a multiplier based off of the percentage of the vote it got. So the majority mod will be that the much more popular while the minority will be that the much more rare. It's basically some majoritarianism so that the bulk of the players are enjoying the bulk of the games rather than most people suffering through the 5th match that month on another obscure mod because one person voted for it. What do you think, one vote one match, or should I slightly expand the majority winners and minimize the minority game-types(rounding should do this to an extent already)? __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

12-19-2005, 12:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
Santa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 19 Posts: 3,355	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers I didnt realize we could sign up for CO yet. Theres nothing more fun than COing a scrim, so im in for that.

12-19-2005, 01:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
aculle01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Monterey, CA Age: 25 Posts: 1,398	Re: Scrim League Discussion: post your questions, concerns, advocate your answers My only question is what happens to um...me when the HellRazor and Black Death (aka Acid) take to the air and I remain on the ground? Just wondering as I dont mind running around getting exercise alone but would like to help wherever and whenever necessary. __________________ "I once thought I had mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored."

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