Coridon

I may be opening up a can of whoo....WORMS, and I've searched the forums and I can't find this discussed anywhere.

I've SL'd a couple of times recently and I'm certainly not one of those guys who fights in the front lines while squad leading. I do the following:

1) Kit assignments
2) Provide Intel
3) Direct Squad Members
4) Provide a Spawn Point

Sunday night while squad leading on Mashtuur my USMC squad attacked the MEC held Power Station. I was up high on the hill to the west of the Power Station and before my troops could neutralize the flag I saw several enemies spawn in near that little "hut" in the southwest corner of the fence perimeter. As they were running to clear my troops from the flag I opened up and cut them down. Apparently my guys were "shy" about getting the flag neutralized because soon enough I saw one of the same guys spawn in the same spot, turn towards me (I had just killed him after all) and I immediately popped him as he started firing.

Now, here's the dilema: an attacking squad is vulnerable to enemy troops spawning in behind them as they dance around the enemy flag trying to neutralize it. I imagine there have been times we've all successfully defended a flag by spawning in and launching a GL at the middle of the flag and killed three or four guys trying to nab it from us. My question is, according to this thread my impression is that you basically "spawn at your own risk" outside a UCB. Basically, since I'm a SL that stays back (even on defense) my opinion is that once a flag you're defending is attacked, you need to find out if it's safe to spawn in on the flag or if you need to spawn on your SL. In other words, if you spawn in unaware to a contested flag and are mowed down immediately...my condolences; it happens to all of us. However, if you spawn in to a flag that's under attack and you KNOW the situation...then I'm not going to feel bad popping you in the head as you spawn in. I would consider myself remiss for not protecting the troops in my squad during an assault.

I don't feel the spawnpoints should be considered DMZs during an attack; as soon as you get your bearings you're going to open fire on attacking troops even though there was empty space behind them just moments before.

My advice is find a squad leader who isn't constantly in the thick of things and spawn on him/her before rejoining the action if your flag is under attack.

Thoughts, opinions?

Have I signed the death warrant for a kitten if this has already been discussed?? So sad...

ABRA

If you are asking if it is considered spawn-killing and/or camping to lay in wait at the known spawn locations at a base and shoot whoever spawns in in the back after your battle line has moved past that spawn point but not yet turned the flag, then I too am curious as to the answer.

Example:

My squad flanks the train accident on Karkand from the northside by swimming across the river. As we move down the fence toward the flag an enemy spawns in behind my squadmates but in front of me. I pop him in the back before he locks and loads to engage the my mates in the back. I even go so far as to cover this individual spawning location at this flag while my boys cap the flag itself. I kill a few guys this way before they are 'aware' even though as they spawn in they are facing my squad's rear that is advancing on the flag. We take the flag, defend the world from tyranny, return home to a ticker-tape parade and marry the prom queen. Was this illegal?

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Pokerface

As always, think objective.

Are you in the process of storming the flag in order to cap it? If so, kudos, and woe unto those who would choose to spawn in a hot area only to be gunned down.

If on the other hand, you're an SL waiting for your squad to spawn on you, and you're picking off spawners from a distance (even in anticipation of capping a flag once they spawn) the line gets a lot more blurry, as you're thinning ranks by taking advantage of a lack of situational awareness on the part of the spawners with no immediate game objective to stand on.

If you start with what you need to do for your team and for the game (the objective) then what you aren't supposed to be doing is more apparent.

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Faultline

Are you asking whether or not it's ok to kill a player as he spawns if it's at a non-UCB flag?
I think this may have been discussed long ago and the answer I got was yes, as long as you're actively trying to take the flag and not just spawnkill.

Here's an old thread I dug up: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...amer-rule.html

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Faultline

Only if she's underage

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Tempus

Faultline has it right, on both accounts.

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ChIck3nL3gz

This happened to me on Vallhalla (I think that was the map the one with the forest?) last night.

We (USMC) were moving in to take a flag and I had been moving behind trees and came in from behind a house. Well, I didn't know that the MEC spawned behind the house and as one MEC spawned he had taken out one of my teammates in front of me who was lying on the corner ofthe house firing on the flag. He had his back to the spawn point. As soon as that happened the MEC guy turned and took out another one of my teammates. So, I went prone at the trees on top of the spanw poitn and took him out, then another one spawned and I took him out. I did this maybe three times before they noticed and grenaded me. I felt bad because they didn't know I was there for a while but at the same time I didn't feel bad because we had guys already on the flag who were being torn apart by the spawning MEC players.

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Pickle

Chickenlegs, that would be considered spawn camping. However, if you wait until they gain their bearings (you see them start to move to an objective or they start firing on you) and then you send them to Valhalla (pun intended )you are good to go.

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Telorn

Chicken, as long as your guys are actively trying to take that flag (and are in the immediate area engaging the enemy you're firing on) then don't worry about it. If you were alone and sniping men as they first spawned, then maybe you shouldn't? The same would be true if both sides are in a 'lock-down' and neither can get a foot on the other. Would it really be fun to be sniped every time you spawned, even though the enemy is not advancing on your position?

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ChIck3nL3gz

I wasn't alone. There were USMC on the flag and one of my teammates was in front of my lying prone on the corner of the house where they spawned behind him, he was killed. Thats why I didn't fire intially. I waited until 2 of my guys went down before I opened up because I wasn't sure if it was allowed or not but after teh second team mate of mine went down I said to myself, "Well..if they are spwaning and shooting immediately then I guess they are fair game."

I still felt bad because I was shooting them in the back but did notice as soon as they'd spawn they'd fire on the USMC on the flag because they were facing it.

We ended up not taking the flag because the resitance was far greater than what we expected so we ended up pulling back.

But does the same thing apply to being revived in the middle of a gun fight?

I'm asking because when you are revived y ou generally come back facing the opposite direction you were when you were killed. Usually you end up facing the medic who revived you. And if you are revived you generally have to reoirientate yourself to face the battle and 9 times out of 10 you are killed before you can do so. So, would the waiting until you get your bearing apply to being revived as well?

However, this is coming from me and I generally have no idea where I'm at anyway.

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BHack

Wow, does this get blurry. I see this thread going the way of my "new private ranking system" thread and turning into a cluster screw.

I've played this game enough to know the general spawn points of any given CP. Maybe not the exact XY coordinates of the player that spawns.. but most DICE maps have probably 3 spawn points per CP.

You think I'm going to have my gun trained on those relatively few areas of spawn.. your damn right. Generally, as a squad leader, my squad doesn't spawn in large 5 man waves. There is usually at least one guy up and trying to get the flag. That means my squad is ALWAYS assaulting and the defenders are always trying to kill at least one guy. As a squad leader, I tend to find an area close enough to the CP that I can cover at least one of these spawn points myself, while being relatively safe enough to reduce the probability of me being heavily engaged. This also means I find certain places, per CP, that I will stay in and hide and engage defenders from a 'relative' distance.

If you were organized enough, you could map out, per CP, the 3 spawn points and have enough wherewithall to have one man from your squad stand behind every spawn point and kill spawning defends instantly. This requires organization to the level not possible outside of inhouse squads. Whether they even go to that level, I don't know, I'm not in one. You could take this one step further, if you were evil enough, you could have one squad member stand on the EXACT SPOT of the spawner. What does this do? the game won't spawn any players in that particular spawn, reducing the amount of places the enemy can come in from. What happens if you cover all 3 spots? The dot goes red and noone can spawn in...... yep.

This would take an unheard of level of tactical gaming, and also probably be frowned up on by TG. I don't/can't do this. But on hot spots like the hotel point on karkand. I sit at the spot that I can cover two of the spawn locations and instantly Grenade anyone that pops in there. My squads seem to be fairly effective at capping these points, partly because of this. This is also why, as a squad leader, I get a relatively high amount of kills compared to other squad leaders that hang back and provide a spawn point.


Is it the best way to squad lead? maybe, maybe not. As I probably get killed more often than many squad leaders because i'm more directly involved in the action. It's a style thing.

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Telorn

You're fair game if revived. Blame the medic for reviving you in a hostile environment.

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BigGaayAl

I feel this would be fairer because there is no spawnkilling involved. More and more people know the spawnpoints and it's getting a bit tedious by now. On the other hand if you know where they spawn, you can't "unlearn" it. Personally I would like to see this kind of spawncamping as little as possible.

It's a good reason to spawn on your SL, but you do tend to give away his position by spawning + he has to stick closer to the flag.

To me the bottom line is though that if you spawn on a contested flag you should count on getting raped.

On pubbies I often take the mec chopper on sharqi to the tv station, I keep killing them on the roof, and they start complaining about it. What I don't understand is why they are too stupid or too something else to spawn on the other point and use the 50 cal /aa /tank on me- easy enough.

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Coridon

Alright, I'm just waking up and now realized I did indeed kill a kitten on a previously discussed thread topic back in August.

FAULTLINE: Post #4 has a link to this discussion. Thanks for that, sir! Apparently I can't give you rep yet. Anyone reading this post also needs to read that one.

ChIck3nL3gz: After reading said post I have to say what you did on Valhalla was perfectly acceptable. You were attempting to cap a flag and that means shutting down the spawns on the flag while simultaneously turning said flag. "Spawn camping" is basicially sitting in one spot and picking off spawning players in order to improve your score and or K/D ratio. I don't believe that was your intention, so your actions are justified.

BHACK: Yeah, that's kind of where I was going. I haven't had a reason to memorize the spawn locations...so I only know of a couple. I personally think your strategy to deprive the enemy of certain spawnpoints during an attack is pretty wise. Again, you have to shut them down if you're going to turn a flag, and the SL should be back away from flag zone anyway...so it might as well be him doing to dirty work if necessary.

TO SUM UP THE DISCUSSION, if you're capturing a flag, you have to have a certain tenacity and tell the enemy YOU'RE DONE SPAWNING HERE; SPAWN SOMEWHERE ELSE. Cap their flag and take good care of your newly procured baby...

Jusb

If you spawn at a hot flag under attack and i'm on offense or defense my M24 site is going to be firmly planted on your head. As soon as you twitch - one step you are dead. I'll give you one second of movement to get your bearing then you will die.

I will however not camp a known spawn point if theres nothing going on at that flag or if the attacking squad is making zero effort to flip that flag neutral. i will follow you until you stop again, go prone begin sprinting or begin to fire on someone/something. Then you will die.

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