BaneII

It's a sad day when the U.S. government thinks that BF2:SF is a terrorist recruitment tool.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...ES.xml&src=rss
http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/285129.html

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-33rd- BaneII
Smokers & Jokers

|TG| B

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbat...19&tid=1888667

this thread is also about that...


I don't know what to say...

kornkobcom

a) Of course the US government thinks games can be used to recruit-- what do you thik America's Army is? A big fat recruitment tool paid for with tax money.

b) if they are posting this video on militant websites as stated in those articles then it IS being used as a recruitment tool.


There is nothing 'sad' about this. It's merely fact. Does it cast video games in the best light to an unthinking sheeple? No. However that doesn't mean that it isn't being used as a tool for organizations hostile to the US.

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Kornkob

I want to move to Theory. Everything works in Theory.

experiment626

Actually there was a similiar article the other day. But it wasn't that games like BF2 were being used as recruitment in their original version...the terrorists are taking the games and modifying them to play up their paticular viewpoint, which ever that is (take your pick of terrorist organizations).

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BaneII

Number one, it's sad that the government doesnt have enough military intelligence to tell that the video game footage isnt a "mod" but a movie of an expansion pack gameplay created by an American company (EA Games). Two, it's sad that these guys in the intelligence community are so out of touch that they cant tell the audio in the video is taken from a satire movie created by the makers of South Park (also American).

http://www.treyparker.com/
http://ia300033.us.archive.org/1/ite...ic_Jihad12.wmv (the said "mod")


Quote of the day:
If you ever played as MEC you are going to Gitmo

- ReconSOC

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Sumluv59

“The makers of combat video games have unwittingly become part of a global propaganda campaign by Islamic militants to exhort Muslim youths to take up arms against the United States, officials said on Thursday.” – Reuters

That’s a bold statement. You would think Reuters would have a Research Dept. Give me proof. I’m not saying it isn’t happening…just list some names or websites. They are basing their argument on a twenty five year olds video. It’s as embarrassing as it is frightening. The U.S. intelligence community is really out of touch.

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perry

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matt_g_geier

I ready the article on Reuters.

Knowing that BF2 "could" be used to train ANYONE doesn't surprise me. It very well could be used and it is used, and I'm sure, is used by the "US" in various military organizations, both personal and private. Of course we don't know whom or where. Going back to the Delta Force or Army Rangers days - Those were some hit games. They both were recruited and hooked up to do "real life" simulations for some US installations, generally when something hits the right people, there is press about it, I remember reading the articles on the web.

With technology today you can download and create "topology" of the environment that you want, any environment, real or not. There are tons of 3D applications that anyone can get their hands on, either pirated or not in order to create whatever environment your heads can dream up. That's what the nice thing is about 3D for me, imagination being endless, I can do anything I want in a "3D" environment, fake, "simulated", imagined, surreal - whatever.

Of course there are other nationalities that BF2 appeals to, it wouldn't be such a hit if it wasn't worldwide. It's purpose is to offer good online/offline team play, promote a good overall gaming experience. It's not our fault it can be exploited by the individuals that choose to, or by individuals it's not supposed to be exploited by - there are other regulations for that kind of thing, it's not our (the gamers) fault if those are not being properly regulated or investigated. I think we can all agree on that.

But to train people, particularly (any forien or non-forien type here) militia organization? Here's the thing I disagree with and why for the following statement:

Again, going back to my statements, yes, you could use BF2 or any other kind of similar outlet to "train" I think that's something we could agree on, however, set that aside for a moment.

In all reality, computers are numerous, about 97% of housholds have one. The world is litterally run on them. It's not hard to aquire one, whether it's bought, pawned, borrowed, or pieced together.

I think there inevitably has to the be the right kind of technology in place to do the proper "training" that the government is referring to. I don't believe that the flick of a button on a mouse will give a learner of anykind the ability or skill to shoot "real guns" - Sniper, hand held, automatic or otherwise. If that were the case there would be no reason to condition troops on the shooting range other then to hone in their skills, maybe that sounds redundant or doesn't make sense to you, but I know what I'm trying to say here - Hopefully someone else picks up on it too.

Perhaps game play, triggers (no pun intended) something in the brain that would allow one to think he/she would have an advantage over the opposing member in a "real life" scenerio. In all reality, BF2 puts gamers on a level playing field unless the game would be "modded" in such a way that it gives advantage one over another. Lets not forget this is possible, and I'm sure is practiced some place - but it's not here at TG. With that said, running, jumping, ducking, throwing, shooting, driving... etc etc in a combat environment can all be "simulated" in BF2 or any FPS for that matter, but do not allow us the "feeling" of a real world experience nor does it allow us to anticipate "real world" actions. Unless you have the technology in place to do so, which isn't going to be cheap, you cannot "properly" conduct the nessasary trainings for someone to learn "war". The technology exists, but in most cases, cost's billions to implement, and typically when something like that happens, people know and hear about it.

War is apart of the world unfortunately, were all apart of it on one scale or another, in one fasion or another, were all involved, just in different ways. I don't feel BF2 can be used for "real world" play to make "real world" desicions given it is what it is already, yes, you can do "tactics" but even that is limited and you have to make sure your VOIP is working too in order to pull it off generally.<---- there's a good example. Add that to all of the other factors of the battlefield play, for example, there is no wind, sun, smoke, heat, screams, screeches, explosions, communications, or whatever the case is, effecting our desicions. What I'm trying to say is in BF2 if something explodes your dead and you spawn again if it's critical, and you're still talking to your friend through the course of everything, saying something like, "dam I'm dead" or yea ... "Santa just knifed me again" - I don't have to tell you if that were the case in real life, you wouldn't be talking or reading this thread, in all reality, our buddies would be crying and we would all be wishing we never joined the squad, or team or whatever. No, it's just BF2, THERE IS A RESPAWN.

I think the government is looking for some kind of excuse or reason to put blame on others. Perhaps due to bad intelligence? Maybe. It could be other reasons too most likely that I'm not aware of. Perhaps there are unknown vendettas or whatever the case may be, I don't care as long as they don't start taking video games away, I know that sounds f'd up, but really, that's a fair request and doesn't punish those like us that arn't involved with bad things.

The fact is the game BF2, is still a game. At least in the US you cannot buy it unless your of a particular age. Not to say you cannot still get a copy, there are, unfortunately plenty of ways to do so. I personally wish regulations were tigher, I carry my ID all the time for instance. There should be tighter regs if they don't want things to fall into the wrong hands be it US or not.

I think the important part of this to take away is to think about is who we are and where we come from as people, friends and individuals. It doesn't matter who you are, or where you come from. It doesn't matter what nationality you are or are not. It's also important to say that it doesn't matter to me, but I cannot talk for the next guy down the road either. What matters is the choices you make as an individual. Some people don't make the best choices, some make good ones, some make good and bad. What's important is that we learn from our choices, and make sure not to repeat bad ones, and that we learn from each other and lend help and advice when in need. We are responsible for ourselves not for others, and most of us here are quite aware of that and the consequences that go along with bad choices.

If you're using BF2 for the wrong reasons, STOP IT. Otherwise, keep blowing the heck out of things if special forces is the kit you like best. If you like to snipe, keep it going, as long as you don't have anything to do with the "sniper shootings." If your the AT guy that likes killing the armor go for it, just don't try to steal any tanks from the armory in your city.

I hope you all know what I'm getting at.

Just my $0.02

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[TG-Irr]Vulcher

Kaine904

I'm starting to love your .02 cents, its like g-money!
sorry, couldn't resist, but... thats just another example of government not following up on leads

matt_g_geier

Maybe I can start a periodical call... "Vulchers $0.02 Cents" LOL ... LOL ...

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[TG-Irr]Vulcher

IRS_Agent

This is a very sad thing to see... mainstream media and the government trying to put video games and terrorist training in the same group. Let's not forget that by having the game they put $50 into our economy. It's also very important to note that of all the things you could probably find on a terrorist website the brains in Wahington decided, what seems to be a demo video (not a mod), is the most important thing, something they just have to present to the public. Futhermore, I think this just shows how the government repeatedly has jumped the gun on issues concerning video games. Hopefully when the generation (my generation) is in Washington we at least will get to know the topic we are about to report on before labeling it as a tool to train terrorists.

PS- If a terrorist uses excel to make a chart whose data is made up, showing that insurgents have killed more troops than the US has killed insurgents, does that mean excel is a terrorist tool??

EDIT- I'm sure we're all aware that a real gun is harder to shoot than an on-screen assualt rifle, I know that I suck with .22s from exsperience, so i doubt that a terrorist will advance much in terms of marksmanship by playing a video game.

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The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.



I
#83 of 213 things you cannot do in the army.
83. Must not start any SITREP (Situation Report) with "I recently had an experience I just had to write you about...."

ScratchMonkey

Given how hard the "intelligence" people and media bit on this, it's not hard to see how they left claims of WMD's in Iraq mostly unquestioned. How can we trust either of them? And due to the risk to assets in place by making the system more open, I don't see an easy way to fix this. These are also the people we're supposed to trust when wiretapping our conversations to not jump to the wrong conclusions. We might as well just line up in front of the prison now, and request an orange jumpsuit.

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experiment626

The WMD were in Iraq. Where did they go? That is the question that hasn't been asked.

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Acid

I wonder what they think of CS:S. The terrorist plants the bomb.....

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eGoatBoy

Copy that.

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