ABRA

Sorry if this has already been posted but I noticed it very starkly and thought I should share.

I was playing in the map with the castle and firing from the windmill to the castle approach in the hills along the boundary. I noticed snipers doing what appeared to be the slow grass crawl technique but they appeared in to be totally in the open. This was because through the scope of the Anti-Material rifle, the draw distance for the grass was quite easily recognizable.

Although I didn't intent to exploit it, I found from my ordered post, I was in a position to engage the enemy while they were still outside the grass draw distance. They must have thought they were in cover but they couldn't've been more exposed. It was fish in a barrel. I imagine with half an effort you could position yourself in such a way to leverage this engine exploit to devastating effect.

Now I play at a LAN center so while I cannot confirm it, the graphics appear cranked way up. The detail settings and effects are the most luscious I have seen on any system.

So while I don't think it is a crack in the sense it is necessary to reconfigure the system to get this effect, it is something to be conscious of when engaging snipers. Because it is an exploit all can take advantage of, perhaps it isn't an exploit at all. But I for one rarely enjoy sniper and hope not to have to employ this extensively in the future to counter this threat for my squad(as I was ordered to, to great effect I might add, that round).

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Beatnik

Great post dude. +rep I was doing this very thing last night (dying in the grass, not shooting).

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perry

Yep, noticed this on nuke night a couple weeks ago. Tempus was crawling through open ground and I picked him off in a few shots. He asked me over TS how I could have seen him.. then I realized that this is the same thing that BFV did -- only draws grass out like 50m or something.

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BaneII

That has to be the most annoying thing of the game engine. Your visual is hampered by the grass yet you are exposed over long distances. Kinda hard to sneak through all those fields due to this anomaly. Only on night maps can you get away with this type of maneuver.

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PhoenixxFire

I have seen this and I find it pretty crappy, but necessary (my system isn't fit to run on all max settings), however, for some reason, I have hardly noticed this effect. As a matter of fact I find quite the opposite in PoE, in which I have a very hard time discerning the enemy from the brush. I attribute this to the extensive use of larger foliage types.
And that leads me to my point:

As a sniper, use large objects (e.g. tree trunks, buildings, fences, vehicles etc.), as well as range, to your advantage. Not only does it help break your figure (as opposed to being a single dark lump in the distance, you become just another shadow, or outcropping, on that building), but also at range you also have the advantage of being able to see them through your scope (which has a 2 setting zoom) at a longer range than they are able to.

Rick_the_new_guy

good post ABRA.

A noble warrior you are.

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Exploding_Silver

I remember Killrogg commenting on his Inshail map about how grass works close up and at distance,

any of the map makers wish to comment ?

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Tinker

I learned this lesson very quickly when playing BF2.

Never EVER rely on grass as cover.

Snail88

I know that the developers of the engine are aware of this and in 2142 they are using grass more as astetics (sp?) than for concealment. This makes you find actual cover or throw smoke.

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ABRA

Exactly. I definitely wouldn't mark this as the end of stealth tactics. Far from it. Remember that the grass in front of your face that prevents you from seeing anything but rooftops is the same grass in the face of the sniper across the same field. This exploit is only possible if you are in an exposed position, like those rooftops, with a long vantage into grass. In the wide relatively flat fields, there are few features that elevate you enough to see over the grass in front of you. Even if the grass supposedly concealing the other guy exposes him, the sniper won't be able to see unless the sniper is in one of those few and relatively easily recognizable positions that give him that vantage. It is elevation irregularities that expose these long views to a sniper.

That being said this exploit presents a number of tactics that are difficult to counter as infantry. The exploiting sniper in a elevated hide has a ring at ranges ~100m or greater with little or no effective cover that must be crossed by attackers. Even would be counter-snipers don't often have the opportunity because such hides are in the open with no covered, non-hostile approaches within mist range, let alone exploit range. So a single sniper, so deployed can effectively kill an entire squad unable to engage him when prone due to the grass around them. And crouched or standing fire is too inaccurate at these ranges. I am at a loss to think of a counter-tactic to this that does not involve a vehicle.

Other AM riflemen can even know the exact position of the sniper hide and not be able to engage because there is simply no where they can go prone that gives them a clear vantage to the target. Or if there is, his approach will be quite obvious to the exploiter. He would need a long, clear area(a road), pointed generally at the exploiter hide. Then he could stay in the mist range and look for the hide as it appears out of the mist during his approach. Then the counter sniper should get a shot at the exploiting sniper in the first moment he himself would be in danger.

A quick Jeep deployment by a counter sniper into close building cover that allows him to deploy in still-drawn grass was a successful counter. Interestingly enough though an OPFOR tank parked directly under my hide immediately after I redeployed and wasn't maintaining a constant overwatch. The tank was not an effective counter.

This is not theoretical, this is exactly what I did. I don't think this warrants any rule changes as it is just a fact of the game to be aware of.

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Barracuda_Magoo

It's quite easy to change the draw distance of grass when making a map, but it increases strain on your computer. How much it will affect your performance I don't know, but cranking it all the way up would definitely have an effect.

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Kilrogg

Really this is the first time you guys have noticed grass only draws at a certain distance? . Why do you think none of the BF2 maps use grass for cover (besides maybe Songhua which can afford it because of all the fog/trees).

ABRA

I thought it was different in PoE

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Shiner

One of the reasons I added so much "fog" and limitted the visual distance to my map was to try and reduce the visible distance by which grass isn't drawn. You can't just make grass drawn out 250 meters or the game becomes unplayable for anyone without a top end machine.

Hopefully this issue gets addressed in bf3.

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RocketPunch

^^^ Thats what I was gonna say. The developers will need to be aware of the limitations and use the grass more wisely.

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