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Discussion: Battlefield 2 / Battlefield 2 - Map & Mod Development - Smoke isn't tactical! - Smoke is not tactical. It isn't. Really.
I'm sure you've been in a squad where
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03-20-2006, 03:51 PM #1
Smoke isn't tactical!
Smoke is not tactical. It isn't. Really.
I'm sure you've been in a squad where your at a point where you need to get to the flag from a certain distance away. You know the enemy is there and your path will be risky. So whats the squad leader order. "All right everybody start popping smoke and keep it flowing on the way." Who needs stuff like surpressive fire, flanking, bounding, infiltration, or fireteams when you have the best tactic of all: SMOKE + Sprint-button!!
Actually... smoke can be used tactically on defense: Stand back, hold your fire until the inevitable grey plume errupts on the flag and then spam nades. "Flag Defended"
ok, discuss amongst yourselves.
|TG-12th|WhiskeySix
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03-20-2006, 03:57 PM #2
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
Smoke is good for crossing small open areas, or giving your medic some cover to revive a downed man. It's not the end-all-be-all, however.
I would love to do more tactical maneuvers, such as leapfrogging and fireteams. Unfortunately, you can't point in this game, and unless you're with 5 other guys that you practice maneuvers with regularly it takes too much time to explain how to do something. I know, trust me. Many times in the past I have tried to take as little as 10 seconds to explain a maneuver to my squaddies, and before I was done we got wiped out. The game moves too fast for these things unless all your squaddies know them and can work together; even in TacMod.
[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo
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03-20-2006, 04:01 PM #3
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
Ahh...while I think it can be overrated in it's "tacticalness", I still like to have smokes handy when moving across open areas, covering a retreat, or if I just need to burn one to calm my nerves.
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03-20-2006, 04:17 PM #4
Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
lol!
Originally Posted by Faultline
sure you can: one thing i've been trying to do as SL lately though is use the "Move here" command a LOT more - the commo-rose version and the map version. Another useful thing is to place a few waypoints right in quick succession... I use the map view for this... takes 15 seconds. Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan
Start with the end objective: "Attack here" (sword appears on CP)
"Move here" (yellow smoke marker appears by building just north of current postion)
"Move here" (yellow smoke marker appears along cliff to west of first waypoint)
"Move here" (yellow smoke marker appears by bridge just south of CP)
"Move here" (yellow smoke marker appears by west wall of CP)
"Go, Go, Go"
Then your squad has some idea of how you want to get where you're going.. along the way, use the commo-rose version to adjust... put a waypoint behind a big set of rocks you didn't see before... or behind a guard-tower or other small feature.
[edit: SL's, remap your E-key to be the 'other' commo-rose, it makes it a lot more handy to throw down CO-requests and waypoints. Move "use/get-in-vehicle" to F and "pickup kit" to G]
Anyway - my point is that smoke is WAY overused in Tacmod -- it's to the point where, at times, the game play is LESS tactical than vanilla IMO. <braces for impact> It's a crutch - TacMod makes everyone a lot more vulnerable. I see smoke being used as to enable the same old vanilla style, rather than promoting new tactics and techniques.Last edited by WhiskeySix; 03-20-2006 at 04:38 PM.
|TG-12th|WhiskeySix
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03-20-2006, 05:57 PM #5
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
That's fine for moving the whole group, but there are many times where I want to move 3-4 men simultaneously in different directions. I can only put one marker down, however. It gets to the point where I spend more time in the map view than I do in the actual mix of things. While I don't need to be on the very front line all the time, it's easier for me to watch a few directions or precisely place a mine/claymore/c4 than it is to explain to someone what I want. Originally Posted by WhiskeySix
[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo
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03-20-2006, 06:13 PM #6
Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
yeah... that's tough to direct IRL too though... In BF2 it's less than ideal, but with a little practice it can work pretty smoothly- it's just a matter of integrating those waypoints with your VOIP... Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan
- You guys go here ['move to this position'], and the rest of you here ['move to this position']...
- Contacts south, let's ['attack here'] clear them out...
(Use [attack] and [defend] as SL instead-of/in-addition-to [spotted])
anyway... I still don't like smoke
|TG-12th|WhiskeySix
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03-20-2006, 06:17 PM #7
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
1 Smoke per kit is fair enough for me.
|TG-12th|Undead
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03-20-2006, 09:42 PM #8
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
I wouldn't say that smoke isn't tactical as your thread suggests but do agree that it is overused. That's one reason the number of smoke grenades was reduced over the past couple of tac mod releases. We're still sorting out the exact number for the classes to have so that they can be effective with smoke but not overuse them. Originally Posted by WhiskeySix
There are many "things" within the game (vanilla or tac mod) that, if used incorrectly, can become gamey and less tactical. Beyond the player's "mindset", it's a matter of finding the right way to implement it in-game.
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03-20-2006, 11:23 PM #9
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
I hate when people pop smokes when were sneaking behind enemy lines, they have just alerted EVERYONE that someone is in the vacinity and so the enemies will now focus there fire on the big puff of smoke that I happen to be standng in the middle of.
I think smoke does more harm then good, also its bad for your lungs-and my frame rate
"The Taoist sage has no ambitions, therefore he can never fail. He who never fails always succeeds. And he who always succeeds is all- powerful." -- Lao Tzu
ingame name: Zuiquan1
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03-21-2006, 12:46 AM #10
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
Makes me laugh when people use smoke when nobody knows they're there. If the enemy doesn't see you, don't throw a smoke grenade out in the open telling him where you're going to be running. Throw it away from where you're actually going to be going and use it as distraction.
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03-21-2006, 09:47 AM #11
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
And this is not a good tactic? I have on occasion popped smoke in an entrance I want them to think I am coming. They'll know I'm coming soon enough. If they are already all over the flag then sneaking up on them isn't really an option. Originally Posted by wushuhero
I hate when people pop smokes when were sneaking behind enemy lines, they have just alerted EVERYONE that someone is in the vacinity and so the enemies will now focus there fire on the big puff of smoke that I happen to be standng in the middle of.
I think smoke does more harm then good, also its bad for your lungs-and my frame rateflux
[tg-c1]
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03-21-2006, 09:50 AM #12
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
I love attacking flags with a squad, and everyone throws 1 or 2 smokes on it. I love how it kills my frames, and if I see someone it doesn't matter because I won't be able to react with the amount of frames I'm getting. Also with a bunch of smoke on a flag and it goes neutral... pretty obvious for support to just huck grenades into the smoke and open up into blind fire(support don't need to be able to see you, just need to know you're there.).
-StubbedToe
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03-21-2006, 11:54 AM #13
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
I can't say what is "tactical" about smoke, but I can argue fiercely after two .9 play sessions that the Medic MUST have its 4 smokes back.
|TG-12th| SHINER
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03-21-2006, 11:55 AM #14
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
Originally Posted by Sergeant
By all accounts I have a low-end machine and never get lag from smoke. Are you sure you have the detail turned down enough for your machine's specs?|TG-12th| SHINER
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03-21-2006, 08:48 PM #15
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Re: Smoke isn't tactical!
They're down. Woo thank you 5 year old Dell computer. heheh Originally Posted by Shiner
-StubbedToe
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