Re: Need TG'ers suggestions on my map.

**Kilrogg** · 04-03-2006, 11:05 PM

Now that's what I wanted

. Thanks for the feedback. Your flag placement is very symmetrical and should create a balanced map but I'm wondering if it won't spread out the map a bit too much. I guess distance is hard to gauge by running around the map without anyone to fight. My plan was to try and recreate the kind of slightly faster-paced action you find in Karkand or Mashtuur but in a forest environment.

I'm not going to mess with the Village architecture but I'll see if I can move the flag to a new area in the forest slightly to the east like you suggested.

Now if I could get a few more people to do what you just did it'd be awesome

**Pvt_Meister** · 04-04-2006, 02:31 AM

I did some testing and made some Photoshop changes to highlight what I see.

1. Suburbs and Village are much to close together. 1 good squad could do a good job covering both and the travel time between them is to quick. Village to suburb is 11 seconds.

2. What about a Lake Shore flag? It would be similar to the beach flag on wake. Very hard to hold but it would give the USMC a good target flag if they were pushed back to their UCB. The could hug the wall to the south by the road while boats took the attention of any defenders. I do see a problem with a beach flag with the current terrain. It would be a little too easy for the USMC to ram a boat up. Maybe create a small cliff for a certain distance to either side of the lake shore flag to limit this?. The approach from the UCB to the Village and Sec HG flags are wide open so the USMC is pretty limited on options if they are pushed back.

3. I agree that the farms are too close together. Move North Farm east and make the bridge destructable to limit vehicles on the road if the Chinese are pushed back to the farms. I would consider adding some foliage between the farms as well. To move between them is wide open and you mentioned you wanted a pace that was similar to Karkand. I think that some cover between them would allow a squad to advance at least part way with some speed and not be wide open. It would allow them to move into the trees.

4. I did some jeep transit times testings.
UCB to Sec HQ 23 seconds
Sec HQ to North Farm 21 seconds.
North to South Farms 10 seconds.
South Farm to Village - driving like a nut but I found a path that kept my jeep to about 3/4 life - 20 seconds.
UCB to village 24 seconds.

I do like the Sec HQ flag. With the two levels of walls it would be hard to attack from the UCB. I think this would be a highly contested flag. With the addition of a Lake Shore flag it would allow the USMC to have two approaches and would help spead out the defenders.

It would really help to do a test run. I bet you could get sufficient volunteers.

**Kilrogg** · 04-04-2006, 02:51 AM

Yeah but I have to settle on a flag setup before I make a beta for playtesting. I think I might try to move the HQ slightly to the left or expand on the current structures and move just the flag to the left, so it's almost directly under your Lake Shore flag, like where those sandbags are at the HQ (which btw are remains of the old layout and float in mid air

). I don't want to modify the lake area terrain much at this point. I think I'll also put a road block with a few sandbags and destroyed vehicles as cover for people crossing the road.

**sordavie** · 04-04-2006, 03:50 AM

I like how the south farm is north of the north farm. You should keep it like that! It would be funny to see people get confused.

**Lorian** · 04-04-2006, 04:07 AM

I think it will just look like a mistake and not be confusing, you should put them the right way round.

I would be happy to do a play test whenever you're ready

**ChIck3nL3gz** · 04-04-2006, 10:14 AM

DLing now. Will play it as soon as I'm finished with breakfast and dressed.

**Pvt_Meister** · 04-04-2006, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

Yeah but I have to settle on a flag setup before I make a beta for playtesting. I think I might try to move the HQ slightly to the left or expand on the current structures and move just the flag to the left, so it's almost directly under your Lake Shore flag, like where those sandbags are at the HQ (which btw are remains of the old layout and float in mid air

). I don't want to modify the lake area terrain much at this point. I think I'll also put a road block with a few sandbags and destroyed vehicles as cover for people crossing the road.

Having mid point cover on that road would help the approach to HQ, also it would slow down the vehicle traffic on the road. That road is a straight shot with nothing to limit a vehicles movement. The other road north out of the UCB and South out of the HQ to North Farm are a little trickier and require better driving so they are somewhat slower overall speeds.

Also, what do u think of adding vegatation cover between the farms?

**Kilrogg** · 04-04-2006, 04:11 PM

Yeah cover isn't an issue, I'm far from done building the map. I worked a lot on the northern half of the map and kind of gave up on the southern half for a while, there will be plenty of cover everywhere, the last thing I want is a sniper fest like all the other custom maps are.

This thread was more for checking out if anyone had any genius ideas for flag placement or new areas.

**jmaker** · 04-04-2006, 09:17 PM

I keep getting this error when while the map is loading right when it gets to the verifying client data part. Does anyone know why?

**Kilrogg** · 04-05-2006, 12:30 AM

I have no idea but a "Busted App" error can't be good

**PhoenixxFire** · 04-05-2006, 09:32 PM

Ok, well, I did a relatively quick(1 hour) but in-depth run through of your map.
At the moment I dont have all of my ideas together on paper, but I'm working on it.
There are a couple of ideas that Mantis indicated that I agree with.
I should be posting an fairly detailed examination of my take of the possibilities of your map.

On a side note, the map looks and flows great. The terrain, the foliage, and the lighting are superb

(you just gotta love that sunset light coming through all those crimson leaves)

**PhoenixxFire** · 04-08-2006, 12:05 AM

Ok, so this is my proposal on some of the details of this map:

This is an overview of my ideas with explanations following

Firstly, lets start by figuring out whether this map should be a USMC assault map, or a Double-Assault map. This would factor in determining if this map should have 1 UCB or 2 (and in my opinion it should at least have one). Either way the USMC should start off with a UCB. However, where it is currently located is proabably not the best place for it.
I propose to change the current location of the UCB into a USMC starting base that is capturable, with a few additions seen here:

And instead, add a UCB flag location father to the northeast of the map, located some where around here:

The change in location of the UCB is due to the fact that in general, UCBs tend to be located farther away from the main battle zone, and would fit in-line with TG, as to deter attacking the UCB, and allowing forces to spawn and re-group, in the event of being pushed back to this last flag.

The next area of intrest for me would be the addition of a new flag on the north shore of the central lake close the lakeside in the area that is jutting out, inside the tree line:

around the area in this picture.

Additionaly, if you noticed on my overview map, I tried to convey the idea of making the flag here linked to a second spawn point on the southern edge of the lake.
Which also brought me to the idea of moving the boat spawns/docks that are located on the USMC side (east side) of the lake, so as to make them easily accessible to anyone who controls the lakeside flag, thus adding importance to the control of the flag. Which should focus battles without actually bottlenecking them (which is what my general idea on this map is).

Moving the the Western end of the map, my idea was to add buildings to the "suburbs" and "village" flag areas, but to unite the 2 flags into one, more centrally located flag (in relation to their current locations) as seen in the overview.
I also had a slight issue with the big wall that, is on the edge of the "suburbs" area. Although it looks good, I think it might actually lead to a slight issue with their being only one set of stairs.
My idea was this :

As far as the Northern end of the map, I think that would pretty much cover it. My next post will cover the South.

**PhoenixxFire** · 04-08-2006, 01:12 AM

We'll start from West to East this time.

This part really depends on the decision to either make it a Double-Assault or USMC assault map. In the event of it being Double-Assault , the far Southwest edge of the map would be the most logical location for the Chinese UCB (and in turn adding that sense of overall symmetry to the map). Adding a main road from there to the Farm flag area would be a good idea, to allow vehicles to travel quickly out of the UCB and into the battle. Which is akin to what the USMC already has.

Now that leads us to the farm area. Which in my opinion requires the most additions and slight fixing than any other area.
My idea was to unite both of the Farm flags into 1 (again) more centrally located flag. While adding more low, concrete looking, fences, that some of the buildings already have.
This is to reduce the neccessity of having to run across like 200 yards of wide, open, terrain, while managing to maintain that "wide-open" feeling, that I assume is the effect that you wanted in that area. Also adding a few more of those farm buildings might also help, but thats just preference.

Moving to the East, into the forested region (which is awesome, I might add).
I think the addition of a flag Northeast of the farm inside of the major forest area, would be a neat addition (you can see my location of choice in the overview). This is due to the fact that there is actually already a pre-existing set of a couple of stuctures in that area (One enterable building, and a small sandbagged, defensive position, with a mounted LMG)

Next is the "security HQ" flag area.
Once again a part of this depends on whether the map is Double-Assault (D-A) or USMC assault. In the event of a D-A , I believe that starting this flag off as an uncontrolled flag would be even, at the start of a round. On the other hand in a USMC assault, this flag would proabably be best suited as starting off Chinese controlled at the start of a round (which would make it more like Karkand, in that the USMC would have to start of with a big push to take flags).
In addition to that I had an idea about adding some more buildings to this area:

And the text explains my reasoning.
Possibly shifting the flag area a bit further South might help as well, since it is quite close to, what is currently, the UCB.

Moving on to a slight note of interest. I wasnt sure about the area Southeast of the "security HQ", where there is a large power station type building there, which I assume can possibly be used as an additional flag area, if necessary. But i wasnt too keen on that idea since it is really close and up the hill to the "security HQ" flag.

And Finally:

This issue, that Mantis also brought up, was something that I think will help in the overall map.

( just as a note, some of the pictures have text on them that isnt on the picture showing ::clicky, clicky:: )

**PhoenixxFire** · 04-08-2006, 01:30 AM

This is a follow-up post. A couple of items that I want to bring up.

There are 2 instances, that I have found, on the map that have in which an object was floating in mid-air:

and

And this being the first one while I was actually climb inside of it:

And I was wondering. If this map is a seemingly quite rurual region

Whats with all the advertising?

And Finally

TEDDY BEARS!

**Kilrogg** · 04-08-2006, 01:40 AM

I love you

Very good suggestions which I will try for sure. I'm trying to finish a first beta version for this Monday so we can playtest it along with the normal mappack on Monday Night Mayhem. It probably won't have many of your suggestions as some of them won't have time to make it for Monday but I definately like some of your ideas.

The Northern half of the map is what I'm most satisfied with, one of my biggest problems is figuring out what to do with the Southern part of it. The whole southern half is what's left from the first build of my map and imo it isn't nearly as good quality as the north part, I've kind of used up all my ideas on the north side. The south half is very imcomplete compared to the north side.

This Monday's test will help me a lot as my biggest problem by far is the distances between each flag. I hate long distances between flags but I don't want the map to turn into Team Deathmatch and I want encounters in between the flags. However running around solo in the map is not a very good way of judging distances so while the map will be severely lacking in some areas Monday, it'll show me what is too far and what is too close.

I still got 2 months to finish this so I don't have any problems with reworking things if they aren't working.

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