Re: instant capturing

**Ol'Smoke** · 05-20-2006, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyTwoHand

I could be missing something obvious though and this probably needs a custom map which i just dont think i have the time get into making with all my other TG commitments.

Tip: you can save a lot of time by taking an existing map and modifying it. If you need only a small portion of it, you just make the rest out of bounds area.

**asch** · 05-20-2006, 06:09 PM

Jimmy.... the tac mod team has actually been discussing something very similar for a while now. We want to place the focus on controlling the whole area and not a flag pole.

**JimmyTwoHand** · 05-21-2006, 01:37 AM

Great minds and all that...jolly good to hear, well done chaps.

**Lucky Shot** · 05-21-2006, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by powersmoker

The reason why the flag is captured regardless of defenders in the circle is to force defenders to defend the area leading to the flag. They have to control the area leading to their flag so no one gets trough.

The flag will not switch back and forth because it will be made capturable by the attackers only.

As soon as 1 guy infiltrates a flag area it automatically flips. The defenders then become attackers right? If thats the case, then the defenders still in radius become the next attackers. Since they haven't left the radius of the flag, then it auto flips back creating a loop. This is why I fail to understand how this could be a good thing.

I do think that having the flag automatically turn white when an attacker is within range is sufficient reason to guard the areas leading into the flags.

Lucky Shot

**Ol'Smoke** · 05-21-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

As soon as 1 guy infiltrates a flag area it automatically flips. The defenders then become attackers right? If thats the case, then the defenders still in radius become the next attackers. Since they haven't left the radius of the flag, then it auto flips back creating a loop. This is why I fail to understand how this could be a good thing.

I do think that having the flag automatically turn white when an attacker is within range is sufficient reason to guard the areas leading into the flags.

Lucky Shot

The moment one of the attackers sets foot in the capturearea the attackers win (the flag will be capturable by one team only and the ticketrate will be extremely high).
In front of the flag there is a chokepoint with highpoints overseeing it. Controlling that chokepoint will be crucial to win the game. Falling back to the flag is dangerous, especially if the capturezone has no cover at all, and the attackers have apc's (the defenders don't).

**icky** · 05-21-2006, 01:25 PM

In that case, it is possible to implement without a special mod. The win would not be instantaneous, but you could make it pretty close.

1. Give the attacking team, and the defending team 1 normal flag.
2. Give both flags an extremely high value, like 10000.
3. Make the capture radius on the flags small, like 5 m or less.
4. Make the capture time on the defenders' flag really low, like 1.
5. Make the capture time on the attackers' flag really high, like 999. (or just stick it somewhere with no access, like on a building) Don't make it a UCB or the attackers will bleed as soon as the map starts.

The result is that when the defenders' flag is capped, the bleed rate will suddenly be very high, and it will only take a couple of seconds for their tickets to bleed to nothing. Yes, they could quickly recap the flag, but you can make it so fast that it is essentially impossible.

**Ol'Smoke** · 05-21-2006, 03:04 PM

Now we're getting somewhere

The only proplem is the small capture area. It will be stuck full of c4 (from multiple players), making it impossible to capture. Maybe you could make some kind of gate (on the ground) through wich the c4 falls.

**sordavie** · 05-21-2006, 04:40 PM

Power/Icky: so what prevents the attacking team from just all rushing onto the flag? If you have 32 people all rushing towards the flag, someone is going to get there.

Jimmy: it sounds like a defending squad with less members than the attacking squad will be at a double disadvantage here. The attacking squad can flip the flag without even engaging just because they have more guys on the flag. And, with such a big radius, they can just hide out somewhere until the flag is flipped before engaging the defending squad. Is this right?

**icky** · 05-21-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

Power/Icky: so what prevents the attacking team from just all rushing onto the flag? If you have 32 people all rushing towards the flag, someone is going to get there.

I didn't say it was a good idea, I just explained how you could do it.

The radius of the flag could be the size of the room or the courtyard being defended. I just said "small" because you don't want someone capping it without getting beyond the defenses, and you don't want defenders capping it back by being hidden somewhere.

C4 is probably not an issue because the flag would turn in a second.

**Ol'Smoke** · 05-21-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

Power/Icky: so what prevents the attacking team from just all rushing onto the flag? If you have 32 people all rushing towards the flag, someone is going to get there.

Not if there is a chokepoint along the way.

**JimmyTwoHand** · 05-21-2006, 08:27 PM

Jimmy: it sounds like a defending squad with less members than the attacking squad will be at a double disadvantage here. The attacking squad can flip the flag without even engaging just because they have more guys on the flag. And, with such a big radius, they can just hide out somewhere until the flag is flipped before engaging the defending squad. Is this right?

Thats true, that could happen. If one team puts more manpower in an area they would control it. In an existing urban map this would be ridiculous as it becomes a game of hide and seek. Imagine though, a flag where there is a group of farm buildings with excellent cover, fixed MG positions and windows and sniper haunts. A small area of pasture seperates the buildings from a forested area. The fringe of the forest and the buildings are both within the radius.

The defensive squad has the ability to set up in a stronger position so despite the attackers also having cover they are more likely to take casualties. If the defending squad had 2 fewer men, they would only need to take down two of the opfor to mean the flag didnt move. If the SL was hanging back only one. This should mean that it is a slow process to take a flag by numbers alone and the squad which eventually takes the flag will be the one who can reduce the opposing sqauds numbers over a matter of minutes.

Even if the attackers did take the flag by that method, they still have the weaker position and cant move on to another objective without losing their present one. This would hopefully mean the emphasis is on the squad rather than the flag. Hopefully there would be more emphasis on manouver and fire than on taking a small patch of ground as quickly as possible.

Sod it, i cant explain this well enough, wheres the map editor...

**Ol'Smoke** · 05-22-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by icky

In that case, it is possible to implement without a special mod. The win would not be instantaneous, but you could make it pretty close.

1. Give the attacking team, and the defending team 1 normal flag.
2. Give both flags an extremely high value, like 10000.
3. Make the capture radius on the flags small, like 5 m or less.
4. Make the capture time on the defenders' flag really low, like 1.
5. Make the capture time on the attackers' flag really high, like 999. (or just stick it somewhere with no access, like on a building) Don't make it a UCB or the attackers will bleed as soon as the map starts.

The result is that when the defenders' flag is capped, the bleed rate will suddenly be very high, and it will only take a couple of seconds for their tickets to bleed to nothing. Yes, they could quickly recap the flag, but you can make it so fast that it is essentially impossible.

So if I want to make the capture area bigger, can I just give the attackers 10 flags and the defenders 10 flags with 5 meter radius? The attackers still would only need one flag to win the game right?

I dont really get how that area value works, should I fill in 10000 both by team 1 and team 2 (on the same flag)?

**icky** · 05-22-2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by powersmoker

So if I want to make the capture area bigger, can I just give the attackers 10 flags and the defenders 10 flags with 5 meter radius? The attackers still would only need one flag to win the game right?

I dont really get how that area value works, should I fill in 10000 both by team 1 and team 2 (on the same flag)?

Oh yeah, I forgot that there is a value for each team... that makes it even easier. Give the attacking team a UCB and give all of the defending team flags a value of 0 for the defending team and 10000 for the attacking team. That way, when you start, both teams have 0 value in flags. As soon as that attackers cap one, they now have 10000 value, and the game ends in a hurry.

(note: I've never used the editor, I only know this stuff from what is in the files)

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