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Discussion: Battlefield 2 / Battlefield 2 - Map & Mod Development - Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags) - The inspiration for this map comes from this thread . Within, WhiskeySix drew upon an
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    loyalguard's Avatar

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    Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    The inspiration for this map comes from this thread. Within, WhiskeySix drew upon an idea by Shafik where there would be a map with no flags, just spawn points, so you could engage the enemy at will and not just have the majority of battles occur around or at control points. After several weeks of contemplation I have decided to try to design a map that will accomplish what is suggested above. This will be my first map (other than the BF2 Editor tutorial) so I know there will be a lot of growing pains. I will document the creation process in this thread in order to maximize TG member feed back (and maybe get a little help). I have gained a lot of confidence from seeing Kilrogg’s and Shiner’s maps, so I want to pre-thank them for blazing the way.

    Here is the conceptual plan for this map:

    1) Design an infantry-intense map with only light vehicles for transportation (similar to Kilrogg’s Inishail Forest Map). The map must be realistic, aesthetically pleasing, be conducive to infantry battles, and challenge each team to find a good strategy to achieve victory.

    2) There will be no capturable flags.

    3) Each team will have a series of UCB’s at opposite ends of the map in a line facing their enemy (this will guide the general direction of battle but allow for the battles to occur anywhere on the map – see diagram below). This will allow each team of myriad of choices: direct assault, flanking, lie in ambush, bring up reserves, etc.

    4) The overall objective is to engage and attempt to push back the enemy until they are contained to their UCB line and/or run out of tickets.

    5) When your enemy is contained you will still have to maintain a good defensive line in order to prevent a break out. Similarly, if you are contained you must try to break out and do what your enemy has done to you. Both of these scenarios will mean that squads will have to closely coordinate in order to achieve success.

    Conceptual Diagram:


    I am calling the map "Incense Road" because it is based off of satellite images of an actual location in the Middle East that used to be one of the leading suppliers of frankincense in the world. The "Incense Raod" will run down the middle of the map. I found a location where the natural geogrpahy and man-made objects allow for several types of infantry battles: open field (hedgerow style), dense forest, house-to-house, etc. I will debut both the satellite image and my proposed BF2 adapation of it the next major update (in a day or two). At that time I will also introduce some scenarios to better visualize how my concept is supposed to work

    At this point, I would love feedback from the TG community on the overall acceptability of the idea and how my plan to achieve it might work. If you see a possible flaw in my logic, please bring it up.
    |TG| LoyalGuard

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  3. #2

    Rick_the_new_guy's Avatar

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Love it!!

    I just started a thread on this very subject, but i am way behind on you. However, my idea is one UCB per side. YOur three UCBs i like more.

    I think we will see a whole new feel with this type of map. I grow a little tired of defending a position or attacking a position my self. I want to hold ground instead of holding a flag. Man i can already see the epic battles already. The team that has the most unit integrity wins.

    YOu have my support. Good stuff loyal.
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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    But what happens when they do get pushed back to the UCB? Spawn camping? Doesn't sound like any fun for the team thats pinned down. It will have to have a lot of cover and detailed terrain, and some insentive for controling part of a map.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Rick-

    I'm glad you like the 3-UCB idea. I originally started the design with one UCB but I always ran into the same problem at end-game: One team is completely surrounded at their UCB and it becomes boring for everyone. This has happened enough in BF2 games that everyone knows that is is no fun for anyone.

    What I think the linear multi-UCB concept does is allow for a wider "front" that the defensive team can try to break out of. The advantage will still be to the assaulting team because they maintain complete maneuvarability and depth of ranks. So, the defenders will have to work together closely to try to break free by coordinating attacks and the like.
    |TG| LoyalGuard

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Quote Originally Posted by me, from the other thread
    Just as I said in the other thread, there has to be a reason for advancing on the battlefield. Mabey hundreds of hidden CP's that are captured instantly when someone steps on them, which then form a front and whoever controls a line will get ticket bleed.

    If there was no insentitive to be on the battlefield other than killing someone, why not stay in the UCB and let the battle come to you?
    There.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Quote Originally Posted by black death5
    But what happens when they do get pushed back to the UCB? Spawn camping? Doesn't sound like any fun for the team thats pinned down. It will have to have a lot of cover and detailed terrain, and some insentive for controling part of a map.
    I agree that this could be problematic and is the most difficult aspect of this concept. Hopefully the multi-UCB line along with cover and concealment will give the team that is pinned down enough options to break out provided they work together. I want to achieve this without the assaulting team sacrificing any advantage (and hence incentive) gained by advancing as far as they have.

    If it becomes clear that this concept cannot work due to the probs above, I do have some alternative designs that might work. I will share them soon as well to get your opinions.
    |TG| LoyalGuard

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    This definitely worths trying Loyal. Looking forward to it.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    I would probly put one flag (with no spawn points) in the middle or something. The map could turn into a snipe fest since there is no incentive to attack.

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    Angry Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrogg
    I would probly put one flag (with no spawn points) in the middle or something. The map could turn into a snipe fest since there is no incentive to attack.

    Good point Kilrogg. However, if one team wants to go sniper so be it.

    The other team can use their tanks and A.P.C.s to cover infantry so as to get close to the snipers and close the distance advantage snipers have.

    This kind of map reminds of WW I trench fighting. Loyal the map will need to have trenches and plenty of sandbag fortifications.
    However things will not drag on for weeks and weeks like in WW I but for minutes and minutes on the server.

    The two biggest variables will be how much time is left in the match and how many tickets you are down. So if your team does well and destroys the enemy like a military out fit should do you can dig in and let the clock run out like in a high school basketball game. That will force the senior officers on the other team to say, " We are down only 25 tickests with 10 minutes left, we have got to make something happen and take these guys down."
    Were as the other senior officers would be all like, "Keep that fire up and stay low and do not die!!" O crap squad 2 and 3 put fire down north of your position, large enemy presece is flanking!! move move move! Squad 7 (sniper squad) get up their and put those guys down!! move, move, move!! Tanks shif fire north, shift, shift!!

    One thing about the Battlefield 2 set up is that it is too close quaters action.
    I'm sorry folks but in real life things are not this close quaters but a little more spread out. Granted war fair has become more compact and urban fighting in recent decades.
    This map will make things spread out and seperate the enemies if and only if one team can mass their armour and warriors across a front. With this map it would be uncommon to see anyone closer than 30 meters to you. If you do it most likly will be the point man on a large spear or an idiot out by him/her self wanting to die.

    I predict the support guys will be busy as hell cause with a front line or trench fighting there will plenty of random fire going down. JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE!!!! The C.O. who manages mad minutes well will get a fair amoutn of kills on the approaching enemy. So again, if the team open fires as a unit they can supress and destroy the enemy.

    There will have to be some gentleman rules on UCB, but with three UCB the C.O. can say spawn north UCB, all the enemy is south, if the team is getting pushed back.

    A mad minute is when a everyone fires their weapons on full automatic to saturate a given kill zone or area to kill and destroy the enemy. Again, in real life knife kills are rare and super close fighting is uncommon. mad minutes last for 60 seconds big suprise.
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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Im worried there will be no incentive to attack. Itll require play testing to see if teams are willing to attack to get better defensive positioning. If teams dont attack, you might have to add flags in the middle, but to keep the same kind of idea dont let players spawn on those flags. While making the map you might want to keep this in mind and make certain areas of the map more defensible so that flags can be added if need be.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    the team that gets off to a good start first and gets the most kills in the first minutes of the map can go on defense and run the clock out.
    (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    I'm still unsure of the concept. What this sounds like is team deathmatch.

    I think we will see a whole new feel with this type of map. I grow a little tired of defending a position or attacking a position my self. I want to hold ground instead of holding a flag. Man i can already see the epic battles already. The team that has the most unit integrity wins.
    This is more a map design problem... along with a CO strategy problem. Many maps could have battles that rage away from the flags. It's a matter of setting up the battlelines for the CO and having a map that has chokepoints.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    On the incentive to advance issue...

    One of the alternatives that I alluded to above was to put a neutral flag "near" the middle UCB so that by advancing and taking the opposing team's flag you would induce bleed. You have an incentive to advance and your opponent still has a chance to come back since they have UCB's This obviously violates the "no flag" principle but does give you an incentive to advance and not just sit back and wait. I even toyed with putting a neutral flag near each UCB to better simulate a "front" and not focus all the action in one area. Below is a diagram of some of these alternative:



    The problem I had with these alternaitves is that it is very likely that the action would again only be focused in certain areas and ignore a large portion of the map.

    What say you?
    |TG| LoyalGuard

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    @Rick: See! You said it yourself! One team will be defense for the entire round and just kill the crap out of eachother. This will need some serious rethinking and planning for it to be sucessful.

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    Re: Incense Road (Custom Tac Mod Map - No Flags)

    Quote Originally Posted by Santa
    Im worried there will be no incentive to attack. Itll require play testing to see if teams are willing to attack to get better defensive positioning. If teams dont attack, you might have to add flags in the middle, but to keep the same kind of idea dont let players spawn on those flags. While making the map you might want to keep this in mind and make certain areas of the map more defensible so that flags can be added if need be.
    All very good points Santa. I thought of middle flags as well as an alternative but never sketched them out. The idea is appealing but I initially dismissed the idea earlier because it seemed to me that then you would only advance to the middle and hunker down.

    I agree with you if I did implement it, they would be flags w/o spawn points for sure.

    I plan on making this map regardless of whether the no-flag concept is doable, so I will keep the map adaptable to a add "more" flags later.
    |TG| LoyalGuard

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