HiTestFest

Is there a thread that would help with learning how to squad lead?? Since i havent even played the so called vanilla bf2 or any bf besides this mod, i really cant even figure out how the hell to move those markers.. i feel like a vidiot.... anyhelp would be appreciated..ohh and by the way incursion was a blast tonight..

Anvil

I think the key to squad leading is just leading. Most of the people who play here know what to do, so that helps. I'll join your squad any day,and you are always welcome in mine.

Braidedheadman

Well, I guess that this one is as good as any!

I find that SLing is a mixture of RTS and FPS genre components. One thing that is critical is having/improving upon great situational awareness skills. One needs to recognize when the team's efforts have paid off and achieved bleed on the enemy team, for instance, and not go chasing contested flags at the expense of defense around controlled areas. That almost invariably leads to flag losses and a reversal of bleed conditions that can be hard to undo (especially if you're trying to take a Mantis-held flag/area) and is seen most often when the team has devolved into a "Let's all zerg to the nearest flag" mentality.

Knowing what your squad's role should be plays into the RTS component, I think, in that you need to make a judgment call as to whether or not you team should advance the frontlines and attack contested flags/territories, stay put and set up lines of fire, or fall back to defend threatened flags. SLs should make liberal use of the mini-map for this purpose in order to keep an eye on OPFOR's troop movements as they are spotted by members of your team. That and learning the lay of the map then helps one to predict what the enemy's objectives might be and assign orders/shift positions accordingly.

Aggression. Unless you’re Mantis, SLs generally should not take the lead on frontal assaults. If you find that you're getting ahead of your men, tell them to take point and allow yourself to fall behind a little. Your squadies are relying upon you not only for your guidance, but also as a respawn point that will keep the pressure on OPFOR. If you're one of those run'n'gun types, resisting that urge can be a struggle at times. I should know; I used to be way, waaay too aggressive as an SL, and it just leads to misery for everyone when the squad wipes and has to cover lost ground all over again and again. Hang back, especially around contested flags and provide supporting/covering fire for your squadies going in. Circle flag areas! Don't stay put for too long as the OPFOR will follow the trail of corpses left by your fallen SMs straight to your position in fairly short order. Look for concealed avenues of approach, flank your enemies as they are engaged with your squadies, but don't blow your cover and reveal your position; and make heavy use of cover (do NOT hide in the grass as it disappears at ~80 or so meters - not sure which really, haven't bothered to test it - and leaves you totally exposed and out in the open).

Avoid getting in vehicles with a limited number of seats (tanks, jets, attack choppers, etc.) as you deny your squadies a place to spawn when you do that and worse, you cannot be revived when you finally get killed (and you will). Transportation vehicles are great, however, but get out of the vehicle and proceed on foot when you near contested territories and proceed in on foot while the rest of your squad takes the 'sport into the action; keep your squads spawn point (you) alive.

Confidence is something that really gels your squadies together and gets them doing things that you need them to do, even when it may not be something that they are particularly interested in doing. So give assignments confidently, even if your new to the SL role and are unsure of what your objectives really ought to be. Experience is the only teacher you really have in the end, but they won't know your inexperience if you show confidence and give orders that at least sit well with common sense.

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." --- George S. Patton

Perhaps the most important key to being a successful SL is don't be an armchair dictator. This is just a game, after all, and these are real people you are playing with. The best leaders are the ones who allow individual freedoms while in pursuit of the objectives they assign. The worst are the ones who dictate every move, every action, and even every thought their minions make.

The only rules that you should look to maintain (note I did not say enforce) are those set forth in TG's SOPS. Namely, alerting squad members who are not following the pack and doing their own thing that the need to be brought back into the fold with gentle reminders first, a sharp warning, followed by removal from the squad and a report to the admins for repeated misconduct. Kit assignments are also important, though the only one I really crack down on are sniper kits in my squads as they don't suit the roles that I lead my squads into 95% of the time. The long and short of it is: don't power trip and people will flock to your squads and you'll learn and accomplish more than you can know.

Those are the basics I believe and I can't think of anything else at the moment. If I have more, I'll add it later if someone else hasn't already covered it.

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WhiskeySix

Great thread!

First, it's important to understand that the primary goal in the game is to control more flags than the other team. When you hold > 50% of the flags, the other team looses ("bleeds") tickets even when they're not dying. On 64p maps, that means holding 3 of 5 flags. On 32p maps, that means holding 2/3 flags.



Given that, here's my take on how to SL:

1) Decide WHAT to do. You do this by looking at your map.

- If you have bleed (the other team is bleeding tickets), pick a flag to defend. This is a no-brainer decision. If you've got a strong squad, pick a flag that will be heavily contested (Crash Site on Fallen, Church on Orel, etc). If you have a so-so squad, go for an easier to defend flag. And remember, all flags count the same towards bleed. (Personally, I think defending is a lot easier for new SL's, since you can still defend the flag even if you loose the SL-spawn-point... It can be a lot more fun too, since you'll be more successful)

- If you're bleeding, you're team needs to take a flag. The decision on whether or not to attack isn't nearly as easy: if all squads attack, you'll loose even MORE flags and bleed tickets even faster! So, again, check the map and see what the rest of your team is doing. If you've got a good squad, announce over team chat that you're attacking. If you've got a so-so squad, consider defending one of the flags you do own.

2) Decide HOW to do it. You only have a few options here, but there are two main tools to use whatever you decide to do:

- TALK. Tell your squad the situation (#1 above), and concisely explain what the squad is going to do. For example: "ok guys, we have 3 flags, so we're gonna defend. We have North Cabin and Trenches, so most bad guys are gonna be coming from the west - lets spread out on the west side of the flag"

- USE WAY POINTS. This is such an easy thing to do, yet it's such a hugely powerful thing! One way to place markers is to bring up the map and right click. The other way is in first person view, using the secondary commo-rose... This works just like "Q-spotting", except that instead of "Spotted", you have "move here", "attack here", etc. (In fact, if you SL at all, I recommend remapping your secondary commo button from 'T' to 'E' - this makes it easy to put waypoints down from the first person, in the same way you "Q-spot" enemies).

On offense, attacking from the back or side is a good idea, get you're squad to do this by use "move-here" way-points to guide them around the thick of the defense. When you're ready to hit the flag, then put the "attack here" on the flag.

On defense, you multiply your squads effectiveness by actively putting down markers where you see attacks. "Ok, we've got three contacts north - right here <place marker>". Now all 5 SM's know exactly where the threat is. You can also use waypoints to move guys around. If you want someone watching your north side, tell him... "hey so-n-so, please move here <place waypoint>... I don't want anyone sneaking up around that north side" (I find people really like this - people like having a specific job, and it feels good to be personally trusted with an important duty - even if it's not terribly exciting)

Here's a screen from a month or two back to consider:

Notice:

• Our team has three flags and is defending them... not wasting tickets charging a flag where most of their team is spawning
• This was just after our team recaptured Bunkers - so our squad is spread out expecting attacks from everywhere to the west.
• The 'move here' marker is for NC_Tarheel... I wanted him as an advance scout to the north.
• By clicking on NC_Tarheel's name in the squad list, his icon on the map turned white - the opposite is also true... If you want to know who that green dot is, just click it, and their name turns white in your squad list. (This is helpful - if you've got a guy north, don't assign him to watch your south)

Here's an old video, albeit from PR, I made to demonstrate some of these techniques: Infiltration.avi (69MB)

Low-res google video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20700628908786


Hope that helps!

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ikonic

To add to Braided's post, having a "reverse" psychology mentality can put you one step ahead of the enemy -- knowing where they may approach, who you are up against, etc. Map tactics and long-term strategy is vital, as with having your team hold their spawn or spawn at the UCB and grab all the vehicles. If you want to do the move markers, pull up your main tactical map (M) and right click on the map to bring up the list of commands, you can also hold "T" to bring up the same commands, but in the "Rose" format.

Also, I mentioned this HERE.

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kilevvri1

That looks really old some of those names not seen in a dogs age.

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HiTestFest

Muchos gracias whiskey, khaerus, and ikonic... that was very helpful.. cant wait to try this out..
just a heads up, i am so willing to learn from you guys so when i do SL have a little Patience umm patience yeah yeah yeah patience..
omg i just typed a freakin guns and roses song..
i promised myself if i was to put those tg tags on my in name i was going to adhere to the rules and uphold the tg philosophy..and damit SLing is one of them.. even if i suck at it im going to do it..
ps. any room to join either the 5th or the 12th??

marstein

Having played with you yesterday, one of the key things is to not die. So you'll hang back in a safe place while everyone else is having fun... There are naturals, (like Lucky) who manage to rake up the kills and SL by being one step ahead of the enemies. Keep an eye on him to learn.

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Gigabyte P35-DS3R, 2GB, 8800GTS 640MB, Core2Duo E8400

HiTestFest

point taken marstein.. it got a little frustrating last night, but i will try to do a better job than that..

ikonic

The single most important thing as a SL is to stay concealed and not to die. No rambo'ing and only take the shots that you know will end up killing someone. Employ "Shoot 'n Scoot" methods if targets present opportunities or if your cover is blown.

Another method that seems to work well with a good squad is Air Mobility squads involving the transport choppers (An example can be found Here). Maps like Port Yalta, Berezan Island, Dnipro Sunrise, Rolling Thunder can be tailored for rapid deployment via Transport Choppers.

On a more personal experience with SLing, at first I was freaking petrified, but the more I play as an SM in squads that don't involve any teamwork or leadership, along with the fact that I sometimes squad up with the TG "Naturals", I use those experiences to improve my own SLing. I'm still tweaking my SLing everytime I hop on to play, it's one of those things that you can never really perfect without the help and experience from others.

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kilevvri1

Lead me to them Claymores ikonic! Honestly I absolutely dread SL'ing even now that I do it almost every night for most of my rounds. Not counting my B HIND U or SOKOL squads thats just necessity. Its like Russian Roulette with personalities instead of bullets.

I find that I neither have constant micromanagement skills of LuckyShot, the lovely voice of Khaerus or the permeating simplistic order management of Mantis. I try to let SM's roam freely within a non-specified net the only thing I ask is that my orders be followed immediately or at the least as soon as you can. I don't care if my squad is being royally raped following orders is paramount. On the flip-side I don't care if we are owning either, "Orders is orders."

Find what you prefer and try to keep your SM's in line if anyone asks why for anything, well those are the rules and here we don't break rules.

Also know when to stop an attack and when to divert fire-teams to help other flags. If you see another squad following you around, team chat (press K) that they need to go to another flag or hold position while your squad relocates. The best way to support an attacking squad is not to go onto the flag with them but to provide suppression a distance from the objective while they go in to cap it. IMO

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BaneII

HiTestFest, please note that the mobile spawn point school of squad leading (ie. staying in the back away from the action) is only one style. You can be a frontline squad leader; nothing wrong with it and we have a few here at TG who are quite good at it. Some even still play POE2. I find learning how to survive and live through combat is a better teacher than learning how to hide. Plus having six guns in action is better than having five. I consider my style to be pulling my guys into combat rather than being in the back and pushing them forward. If you run with me, you either learn to fight or die fast. Anyway, I find that with most players, they spawn in and start to giving away your position by firing and making as much racket as possible. Might as well put a "squad leader here!" red arrow over your head in those situations. You can check out the movie here as an example of that style.

Oh, final piece of advice. Try NOT to be predictable.

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-33rd- BaneII
Smokers & Jokers

kilevvri1

Shameless Plug

If it wasn't so darn useful and fun to watch

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BaneII

I'm a firm believer in using technology as an education tool. It's nice to wax philosophical about tactics and strategies on the forums, but a lot of people can't visualize it, especially in the thick of combat. It's nice to be able to sit back and say "Oh! That's what they are talking about."

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-33rd- BaneII
Smokers & Jokers

kilevvri1

I approve, you have proven yourself to me to be a resourceful and apt instructor of standards and procedures, except for the Dingo thing. And I take each word you put down with as much thought and understanding as I can muster. I realize that your wisdom and experience in many a situation has actually saved my ass a few times in the heat of battle. Thanks, but I still love to kid around on the forums.

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