Re: Snake Eyes: How to play as USMC

**IMI-50AE** · 12-07-2007, 02:20 PM

Awesome review as usual Bane. I think the first point you make is vital, but as we all know, it's not the skilled players who get the arty, it's the ones who get there first. If you don't know how to use the arty or are not good with it, DO NOT GRAB THE ARTILLERY! I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT TO GET EASY KILLS! I WILL TK YOU IF YOU DO NOT PROVIDE GOOD ARTILLERY SUPPORT!

I think one other point is the lack of a commander, especially a strong one that can coordinate the team and in some cases 'bully' squads into doing what he needs.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by IMI-50AE

If you don't know how to use the arty or are not good with it, DO NOT GRAB THE ARTILLERY! I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT TO GET EASY KILLS! I WILL TK YOU IF YOU DO NOT PROVIDE GOOD ARTILLERY SUPPORT!

ENNNNT. Wrong on 2 out of 3

1) Anyone can use artillery - no arty-card required. Everyone does it for the first time sometime.

2) Arty DOES need to focus on helping their team, not farming meaningless kills. What's important is that you follow orders and try to help your team.

3) I WILL BAN YOU IF YOU DO NOT PROVIDE GOOD SUPPORT FOR LEARNING TEAMMATES

edit: and as far as the thread goes - if you're not a squad leader DO NOT SPAWN ON THE DESTROYER!!!

**IMI-50AE** · 12-07-2007, 02:41 PM

So what do you call it when your artillery is shooting at stuff waaaaaaaaay at the back of the map, while your ground troops are getting slaughtered on the frontline? Now, I might buy the excuse that they are engaging the enemy artillery IF they were, but when we have artillery raining down on our heads the whole round, and we have somebody shooting the arty the whole round, that tells me someone isn't doing his job and is not using the asset as it desperately needs to be used.

3) So what do you do when you have people in the arty time and again and they NEVER use it properly? That's not learning, that's annoying.

Oh, and I agree that the arty should help the team, but I never see any negative repercussions for the*#^$&@E# who is farming kills with it. So you are saying we should just accept that douchebags can use the arty to stat-pad even though they shouldn't and we can't do anything about it? Because if that's the case, I might accidently shoot an AT rocket at them.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 02:58 PM

Let's not derail the thread about Snake Eyes tactics. The rules are simple:

-Follow orders
-Be respectful
-Don't attack uncaps
-Don't suicide attack
-Don't jump to avoid fire
-Don't TK

There's nothing in there that says medics must revive teammates, support players must resupply teammates, or engineers must repair vehicles. And there's nothing in there that says artillery gunners must fire at the beach. On the other hand, you will quickly find yourself unable to join our server if you "accidentally shoot an AT rocket at" someone not doing those things!!

Look, I feel your frustration - you're absolutely right that all of that stuff can be incredibly annoying; and it should be obvious that's how the game should be played. (Fortunately most people get it, and for the most part that's what happens.) Now then - what to do when someone IS wasting a valuable resource like the artillery? The only way to make them shape up and fire at priorty targets is for someone like you to go commander and order it. If they don't follow your orders, say so in general chat, and we'll take care of it!

**IMI-50AE** · 12-07-2007, 04:20 PM

I know, I'm just complaining because we got stomped.

**kilevvri1** · 12-07-2007, 04:29 PM

@IMI-50AE, I feel your frustration too, but put this in mind, if you think someone isn't using an asset effectively, tell him so in chat. This will generally lead to him either 1. Be a prick and telling you to do a better job, where you a.Take the asset and use it or b.Send someone proficient with tit to show said douche how it's done. 2. Continue using the asset haphazardly, you can wait until he is out of it or go about your business.

I love my stereotype as a Helo-whore, but as anyone who has had the privilege of being my CO can tell you, send me an order and you get results. To that effect if I see the asset not being used properly, I step in and apply pressure.

Truth be told I hate having to use the helo sometimes, but I have to help the team as much as I can. I remember my first time playing Port_Yalta and being royally screwed by the enemy helo the entire round, only to find out near the end of the map that we, UKR, had a Sokol just begging to lay waste to OPFOR. Miss-usage and non-usage of assets is a two way street. And let me add Mantis owned me last night on Berezan with that TLAM, I will make sure from now on to make runs on it on a regular basis.

We all lead by example and sometimes you just have to show people how its done and other times, YOU, just have to go out there and do it! Yar!

**Magonushi** · 12-07-2007, 05:06 PM

I have a quick question about the destroyer's arty. Do they have smoke? On all the other arty pieces (tomahawk excluded) there is an option to fire smoke shells. While I've yet to see this on snake eyes the potential of these shells to even out the battle should be obvious.

Also Bane while I generally hate snipers on my team more than the ones head-shotting my sluggish butt, I can see your point. It makes me think about the beach cliff sniper scene in Private Ryan. Good insight.

**Namebot** · 12-07-2007, 05:16 PM

After the round in the video, I decided to go CO and try to direct the arty on snake eyes.

I threw down move markers to designate targets. They were much too busy firing on the enemy spawn points to follow orders. It was however extremely frustrating to look down on 10+ enemy combatants behind on of those rocks and watch the arty fire 50 feet behind them at the MG bunker containing 1 guy and not kill him.

Next time I will report their refusal to follow orders in an attempt to either fix this habit or have them removed.

**Lucky Shot** · 12-07-2007, 05:19 PM

Namebot, you can download the BFR and record their names. PM them to an admin so they can at least create a file on these guys.

Lucky Shot

**kilevvri1** · 12-07-2007, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

Namebot, you can download the BFR and record their names. PM them to an admin so they can at least create a file on these guys.

Lucky Shot

Jeez, what the hell TGI Tactical Gamer Intelligence, I always suspected with talk of declassified SOP's and such! I ought to apply for a job

**FBmantis** · 12-07-2007, 06:04 PM

Bane you make great points but at the end of the day this map has issues. If it takes a herculean effort on a TG server to breakthrough then there is a problem for the mod. TG teamwork(especially after a release when everyone comes out to play) is not the norm in bf2 land. Just imagine how poorly this map runs on a server that does not have the squadwork our server has....it will be a slaughter every time.

The assault team should get superior assets so they can consistently breakthrough if they put in a decent effort. Right now the assets are stacked in UKR's favor. They get arty, two tanks, two apcs(which by themselves can negate every vehicle leaving the destroyer outside the LAV), 3 perfectly lined up TOWs, mounted LMG's all over and spawn points all over the beach. USMC gets....1 LAV, DDX guns and poor vehicle ability to keep a mass assault up. 1 LAV can't get much done because there are so many things aiming at it...the TOWS alone will nail it if it trys to get close to support. The DDX guns are great but players are never going to be good enough to knock out the armor fast enough to negate the heavy armor advantage. So you end up with half the vehicles consistently getting towed or ATed before they hit land. They then get slaughtered by superior forces and armor all over. The only time USMC ever gets ashore is if UKR is completely unorganized and doesn't use its superior assets.

Crimea is a map that gives USMC heavy asset advantage on the front flags to make the assault work. Now I don't want to see a chopper or tons of LAVS added but the map surely will see some much needed tweeks. In the meantime I will continue to load this map when USMC has a player advantage on paper cause the map is just an awesome experience and will be one of the best maps in the mod once it gets some tweaks.

**ikonic** · 12-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Magonushi

I have a quick question about the destroyer's arty. Do they have smoke? On all the other arty pieces (tomahawk excluded) there is an option to fire smoke shells. While I've yet to see this on snake eyes the potential of these shells to even out the battle should be obvious.

Also Bane while I generally hate snipers on my team more than the ones head-shotting my sluggish butt, I can see your point. It makes me think about the beach cliff sniper scene in Private Ryan. Good insight.

The deckguns do not have smoke. I think if they did, it would provide tremendous support for the US.

**UndeadSoldier** · 12-07-2007, 09:18 PM

Lots of good info here. What it comes down to is this map REQUIRES absolute squad-work and tight control over the ENTIRE team.

Seriously, I have never seen, in any game, a new map so hard to play, remain in rotation for so long, and generate so much advice on how it *should* be played to be fun. Usually maps like this get booted quick.

I'm not saying this to be an a-hole... just making an observation. Even though I suck I always try to be a team player so I'd love it if we always had that drive from *everyone* to do this right and the map would be fun. But, that is rarely the case. And it is so in this top-tier clan pub server mostly populated by experienced tactical/strategic gamers.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 09:29 PM

Personally, I really like the struggle to get ashore. Once you land, the map takes on a more common feel of flag to flag fighting, but that struggle to land and claw your way across the beach with tracers zipping by and arty raining down.... man... it's bliss

That being said, being slaughtered 50yds gets old after the 9th time in a row

**UndeadSoldier** · 12-07-2007, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

Once you land

Key words.

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