Magonushi

I think, in order to balance the map, the counters should start at 200 for UKR and 1K for USMC. I think that might bring up the US chance of victory to somewhere around 20%.

And I agree with Whiskey. I love the challenge of the under-resourced advance. I think if maybe artillery smoke were added, or maybe the TOWs taken down, it would bring everything into a less frustrating but still challenging state.

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"Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one." -Goethe

BaneII

D-Day, with the largest amphibious assault in history, was a herculean effort. In my book, putting 2 to 3 squads on a beach with arty support, not so much. As for other servers, just as the admins here at TG decide to take a map out of rotation that doesn't suit their tastes, I'm sure it's the same for other servers. Otherwise, I'm not concerned at all how other servers play since we all know that teamwork is severely lacking in the majority of places. I think the history of our BF2 scrims prove that.

I've covered the majority of points in my first strategy posts. The two USMC DDX guns are responsible for clearing the concentrated areas of defenders on the beach. They are also capable of destroying any armor with a direct hit if necessary. However, the Tomahawk missile (excluded in your above list) is the best bet to destroy armor and the Ukrainian mobile artillery. Ideally, the USMC CO should be searching for the enemy artillery and mark it for the Tomahawk operator to destroy. This actually happened to me when I last played and was pleasantly surprised. I spent the round moving the mobile artillery to different points to avoid being hit. Just as Pick was COing and providing me target markers, I assumed the USMC CO might have been doing the same.

Your point about players never going to be good enough with artillery proves my stated point. Someone can't get good enough if they don't practice. Using the DDX guns is the same skill as using the mobile artillery or mortars. Now how many players do you know who make an effort to learn to use those weapons? Few. Jmaker was the best I've seen in the mobile artillery seat and I'm not a bad shot myself. But for the majority of play on the server, you will see the artillery being unused or misused. So either players learn to use the different weapons in the game or take them out of the game. But complaints shouldn't be made that when you need to use them for what they are used for, that no one has the skill to use it.

As for USMC, I don't think they need any more armor. The strategy is to establish a beachhead and that means using infantry and the boats to quickly make a landing. The amphibious APC's (and USMC has two of them) will always be slower and will come in behind the infantry to support them. They are too vulnerable to enemy anti-tankers to come in without support. Either Ukraine mines the beach or they don't and allow the USMC vehicles to land unopposed. Therefore USMC is fighting primarily against anti-tankers or against a mix of infantry with more USMC infantry and armor soon to land. Either way, I don't see what is so hard about the infantry fighting on the beach. The main reason why the beach fighting on the ground is so difficult for USMC is because of the improper use of squad tactics. I think the videos I've posted shows that quite starkly. My squads can advance because we don't get pinned because of the use of smoke grenades. Asking players to start using an item they've always in in their inventory is hardly overbearing.

The main difference between Crimea and Snake Eyes is that Crimea is narrower. Thus USMC needs a superior advantage to overcome the less favorable terrain and concentrated Ukraine defense. Since Snake Eyes is wider the terrain is less favorable to Ukraine because their defense is diluted on the coast, thus Ukraine is given the slight advantage. Ukraine will spread out to protect the whole coast while USMC will concentrate it's forces to push through that defense. Breaking down an optimal 32 player USMC team would be thus: 1 CO, 3 artillery gunners, 4 six man squads, 4 man APC squad. Push the south with 3 squads backed by the APC's and artillery and have the other squad attack north. Either Ukraine will shift it's forces south or keep them spread out. If Ukraine concentrates it's forces, the artillery barrage will eat them up while USMC advances on the beach and the north squad heads for the Hotel. If the Ukrainian defense stays spreaded, then USMC's southern force should have no problem advancing on the Outpost. If most folks here would review and discuss this map, understand the strategies needed, I don't think it would be too much of an effort to play this map out.

Now if you really want to tweak the map design, simplest solution would be to expand the north and south boundaries. As of right now, it's too easy to mine the southern coast to the boardwalk. Ukraine could still use mines, but would have to either sacrifice more kits for anti-tankers and engineers or choose more strategically where to place them. Having a northern foot route to the Hotel would spread the Ukraine defense thinner and the northern defenders would have to maneuver instead of being as static as they are; this would allow defense gaps to open and close on the middle to north side. About the only definite thing I would say that absolutely needs to be added to this map is more boats. There is a distinct lack of boats that make it extremely hard for the USMC to sustain beach landings. Put the APC to the front of the line on the north side of the destroyer, add a couple of more boats there too, and put a line of boats on the south side.

Once again, I don't think supernatural efforts are needed to pull these things off. Either we set a high standard for tactical play and improvement or just play here to "run and gun without thinking." I can see the design behind Snake Eyes and enjoy the map immensely. However, if we start shirking from maps because they require some effort to play then we might as well just put up a 24/7 Orel-Fallen server and be done with it.

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-33rd- BaneII
Smokers & Jokers

WhiskeySix

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|30+|SirShotalot

Agreed 100%

I think Snake Eyes will raise the level of play on our server.

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|TG-Irr|SirShotAlot
(SSA for short)

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Axis of Eeevil

!!!

This is having the interest of me, comrade!
Where can I find one, these "24-7 Orel/Fallen" servers?!

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kilevvri1

Yaargh!! Aye Cap'n I agrees with that there request!! Where can we find it! Honestly though I still haven't played this map with 64 players so I feel I am missing so much to add here.

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kilevvri1

So I played Snake Eyes 64 tonight, I actually team switched to play USA, it was a grind for a bit but not so much to call it what I have been hearing it called. I do think a lot of ppl hang out in the open way too much and the mountain side to the S.W. is underutilized by the assaulting team.

We won the map and it was fun for me. Yay for watching Killing with BaneII "Snake Eyes" now out on BluRay & HDDVD.

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Magonushi

I have no idea how it happened, but somehow the second squad, I believe it was the 5th, captured the northern beach without any real aid. Earlier I had requested everyone to attack the south beach which was showing a little progress, but damn. I guess I gotta rethink the idea that the US needs to be purely focused on a single point, to break through the beach defense.

Hopefully, I helped as commander more than I hurt (think I ticked off some people by acting anal about orders.)

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"Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one." -Goethe

Lucky Shot

Thundeer's squad took it, but if my squad had an impact it was in taking an awful lot of attention off his squad. I am disappointed we didn't get that flag first but the next time we try it we will.

Lucky Shot

IMI-50AE

Magonushi, you are the commander, so you would expect your squads to follow orders. However, sometimes the squads on the ground have a better view of the picture than you do; not always, but sometimes. For instance, let's say you are CO'ing for the UKR on Kertch, and the US takes Keep. OH NOES, THEY HAVES OUR FLAGZORS!!!!!!!!11111. Indeed. So you tell one of your squads to attack, to get it back. They decline, saying "CO, why attack? We still have bleed, no assets spawn at that flag, and it's a nightmare to attack. If you really want us to, we'll go, but we should defend." Now yes, this is optimistic of me, but it happens. So now you have a choice: Be 'anal' about your orders and demand the squad attack, meaning another flag could be lost since they aren't on the D and throwing tickets away in a futile attempt to capture a worthless position, or accept that the SL is correct and go with his/her intuition, keeping them on the D, preserving bleed, saving tickets, and making them come to you.


I know, this presupposes 'Teamwork', but still. My $0.02

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playing off the TG server feels like we're playing 2142 on easy mode~Fehmart

I'm going to close my eyes until it's over~Experiment, commenting on my driving

"Get it up quickly and beat it hard."~Jonan
I don't get a bonus DVD? My life has lost all meaning.~Zoopy_T

kilevvri1

Roger on that I was in thundeer's squad with luuser of course, and got the first and second flag I think.

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Magonushi

I try to always do this, but especially at the opening of the map when I wanted everyone and their grandma hitting the same spot, I did not take kindly to a squad wandering up north.

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"Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one." -Goethe

IMI-50AE

Yeah, but did that wandering squad break through?


Remember, if you're all at one spot, they will be too. You gotta hit more than one spot, keep 'em honest.

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playing off the TG server feels like we're playing 2142 on easy mode~Fehmart

I'm going to close my eyes until it's over~Experiment, commenting on my driving

"Get it up quickly and beat it hard."~Jonan
I don't get a bonus DVD? My life has lost all meaning.~Zoopy_T

Judge_Leo

If the UKR were only given the back flag to spawn at the outset it would give the US a better chance of getting ashore while the UKR forces would be advancing and capping the remaining flags along the way. This could be tweaked after trying it to perhaps give UKR the back three flags if they get hosed too much starting with just one. I agree with Bane's points and appreciate all the time spent making them, but if the map becomes one where the server empties out each time it changes to Snake Eyes then all the strategy in the world won't help.

Magonushi

No. That squad eventually ran into resistance and died to the last man. I had spend the minute+ of prespawn server time repeatedly saying "Everyone hit south beach." That was why I was a bit upset when they went north.

And I've had my fair share of having to follow orders I don't agree with. But after telling the commander my opinion I still let him make the final call.

And Judge Leo, the fun part about this map is the struggle to get ashore. Make it too easy or even free and most of the map's unique appeal goes bye bye.

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"Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one." -Goethe