Re: State of the Teamplay Address

**kilevvri1** · 12-05-2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by boudreux

Whiskey is absolutely correct. New faces have given way to new opportunities. We were playing Operation Acorn this evening, (Which I hate), but population was low, and there were quite a few 1-man squads. I created a "Defense!" squad, and asked people to join. People did, and I soon had a full squad of people I have never seen before except for Dirty Berd. We then proceeded to do a coordinated defense of two separate points. Which is tough. All they needed was organization and encouragement. Luckyshot took one for the team and stepped in to CO and coordinate. This helped even more. A lot of these players want the magic, they just don't know it yet. Give them attainable goals, show them how, set an example.

Actually those guys had to be ordered to close out their one man squads and I was also on that map. I was working with some pubbies then Bane2, Anvil, SumLuv(I think) dropped in and started tearing it up. We had them beat, but then we lost all of squad 3 our other defending squad and all hell broke loose. Thank you again LuckyShot for stepping in and COing we won that round because of you. And good work to you too Boudreux! All night I had very good team play rounds with pubbies. Another thank you goes to C-Box for a brilliant CO take over on Crimea we were getting our a$$e$ handed to us and he helped turnthat around, I am glad to say my pubbie squad along with Dirty Berd held Beach and Beach Village, all round, except when we were sent to take Lower Village which we did and then at round end we got Church too.

My only bad point on the entire night was Port Yalta, I think thats the name. OMFG! That map has issues, Or I haven't learned how to play it properly yet, but jeez we were annihilated literally and figuratively. All in all a good night and I am certain I have a few pubbies that will be squadding up with me on a regular basis. I tried no to start squads last night but hit the ones with unknown names and help them out. Use my knowledge of the playing field to help then better help our team. Just like I learned from you yesterday Whiskey, some guys didn't know about bleed or keeping a close watch on your flag.

Looking forward to tonight. I will be doing the same thing. Thursday I will be off and then again on Friday. I forgot to pump the visit to the forums during my matches but I won't forget next time. Thanks for all your input, keep adding more so I can fine tune the process of promoting proper teamplay on the server.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-05-2007, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by boudreux

A lot of these players want the magic, they just don't know it yet. Give them attainable goals, show them how, set an example.

QFT.

Attainable goals: C4 the flag, mine this road, put medpacks here, put ammo here, move your tank here, etc, etc. I think people really thrive on having something specific to do, even if it's inconsequential or doesn't make sense...

**tHa_KhAn** · 12-05-2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

Attainable goals: C4 the flag, mine this road, put medpacks here, put ammo here, move your tank here, etc, etc. I think people really thrive on having something specific to do, even if it's inconsequential or doesn't make sense...

You make a good point. I have a bad habit of when I am SL of assuming everyone understands how to setup good defenses or travel the road less traveled for the assault. It always works better giving very specific orders unless you know your squad is familiar with the map and tactics that are appropriate.

**Beatnik** · 12-05-2007, 12:03 PM

Saw some good teamwork on the server last night for the couple hours I was able to play. Started a squad when I joined a 13 man team with two full squads + CO on a new map that was urban and had lots of chokepoints, and quickly had a full squad of new faces. After being a bit spread out, we eventually formed up and started sniping and going AT to harass enemies dug in at a forward CP. It was great to get back in the thick of it with a bunch of new faces and see some solid teamwork and cross-squad support, despite the team's loss. We somehow ended up with best squad that round, I think.

My short experience (playing 2 hours in the last 3 months or so) indicates that teamwork is definitely not dead on the server. Just start talking and addressing people by name, and if they're not completely incompetent, odds are you'll have a decent squad working on objectives. That's the biggest strength of the TG BF2 servers: a big pool of willing and responsive players, given someone takes the initiative to lead.

That being said, I've still got a ton of connection problems in-game, meaning I'll be spending the lion's share of my time in TF2 land, lighting cartoon characters on fire, but it's good to see POE2 still doing relatively well here.

**kilevvri1** · 12-05-2007, 12:20 PM

More and more I am seeing that there is a lot that can be done that isn't. I bet we can all put a bit more effort and reap the benefits.

**ParkBench** · 12-05-2007, 12:44 PM

I've had good and bad experiences in the last week. I've joined a couple squads lead by what appear to be none TGers. I voip say hi, and ask what the plan is, then I use the rose to request orders. then when in a "safe hiding spot" I check the big map. if the squad is all over the place, and appears to have no direction... I leave, and look for another squad. I'll do this a couple times, and yeah often I'm running across the map to get back with my squad. I usually can tell if the squad leader is leading within 2 minutes. "hey parkbench." when I join their squad, usually is a good sign.

if I can't find a squad that is even trying to work together, and the others are full, I resort to being Hawkeye Pierce for squads near me, and I play 'spot sniper' I find a good hiding spot on a hill, and spot enemies for the TEAM. I rarely fire as shot when doing this, but try and fill the map with accurate red question marks. then khareus find me.

the new blood has been good on the servers, we get decent 20 vs 20 earlier in the evening, but... there has been a shift in the teamwork.

I guess I'm chiming in cause I wanted to express these thoughts. I really like the TG community. I like what it stands for...(I'm not good at Quake Arena ./ Unreal Tournament, and thought I don't think I'm good at BF2 either, its more fun.) but a small part of me wants the noobs that are just bombing the server cause its running POE2 to go home. I feel like its jr high again, and I'm at the playground, a couple tall high school kids have come to play BBall with me and my friends, but... we were playing a fun game, and passing the ball. they showed up drank all the gatorade and are hogging the ball, cause I can't shoot the rock like them.

I understand growing the community, but sometimes the big kids (or in this case, younger kids / new kids) don't want to learn our game. they just want to pwn me, and be 1337.

-Bench

PS I'd start a squad myself, but I'm having slight mouse issues... I can't right click on the map to put up signal smoke...dammit! I'm still working on that. darn intellimouse explorer.

**Gahlas** · 12-05-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

QFT.

Attainable goals: C4 the flag, mine this road, put medpacks here, put ammo here, move your tank here, etc, etc. I think people really thrive on having something specific to do, even if it's inconsequential or doesn't make sense...

The best squad leaders in Vanilla were always the guys that gave those specific orders, where to place mines, what direction to watch, what to do when you get hit hard, etc; all without constricting your movements. I would love to see more of this. SLs on PoE are either way too lax or way too constrictive.

I think stronger punishments would help boost the teamplay, especially if you wear the TG tag. I have seen a lot of poor behavior from some folks wearing the tag and so far I have not reported any of it. For now on I will make it a point to start reporting everything. I was holding off because the new release means new players who arn't aware but I think they have had enough time.

If you are wearing |TG|, make it a point to follow all the rules to a T or don't wear it at all folks.

As for medics, I will take a "defunct" one over a assault or a spec-ops any day. I am so sick of them running around spamming grenades and then complaining because their uber-1337 streak got ruined and the medics can't magically make the other squad dissapear before they try and revive. You complain about medics in a squad with me, guess what, no more revives for you.

How about this? There is this useful function that allows you to pick up the medic's kit and revive him, returning the favor. Magical! I know you might need to put down that shiny grenade launcher but jeez, it sure would help out. About the only ones who will do this are Robocop or Troublesome4u, thanks to them.

As for snipers, please make this kit a BB gun with a scope. Then maybe they will do something useful like spot. I hopped on the server yesterday and 5 out of 7 people on my team were snipers. That is insanity. Also I would love to see the .50 cal sniper gone from most maps. All people do is rush to get it, climb a tower and shoot away until they die. Do they help anyone? No. Most of the time no one is even attacking the flag for them to support. And you have to ask, where is their squad at?

**Mr.McFeelme** · 12-05-2007, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

While I agree, my original comment was a little tongue in cheek. As in other discussions, I can count on 1 hand the players I have witnessed to be effective team players and use the sniper kit with regularity. Sniper is a very situational kit and can have a great impact in those situations.

I like to push issues to the absurdest conclusion. In fact, thats sort of how I play POE too.

But I think the fundamental issue that drives everyones opinions here is how seriously they approach the game. Some have a 'win at all costs' attitude. Some have a 'try to win, but I'd rather have fun' approach. Some have a 'i want to annoy as many people as possible' approach to the game.

Granted, that last type is a problem. However, I think the friction may be between the first and second types. I'm not saying one group is right and the other is wrong, but people gain enjoyment from this game in different ways.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-05-2007, 01:01 PM

I'd like to see more of you guys that are posting in this thread leading squads!!

There's the usual gang of 5-6 SL's on every night, and then a pub or two will start a squad. You regular guys need to stop being shy! Don't worry about being a great SL... don't worry about making amazing tactical decisions... Just represent TG! Talk! Explain how bleed works! When someone is wandering off, say in a friendly voice "hey DrWho, I need you over here with us bud".

(Plus, chances are, you'll get some good teamplayers in your squad and it'll make your job easy!)

**AMosely** · 12-05-2007, 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=Beatnik;849631]My short experience (playing 2 hours in the last 3 months or so) indicates that teamwork is definitely not dead on the server. Just start talking and addressing people by name, and if they're not completely incompetent, odds are you'll have a decent squad working on objectives. That's the biggest strength of the TG BF2 servers: a big pool of willing and responsive players, given someone takes the initiative to lead.[QUOTE]

Good point Beatnik, I agree - I was on for several rounds last night and had some great squads with me. Teamwork isn't dead at all, but threads like this are important to keep it alive.

Originally Posted by Beatnik

That being said, I've still got a ton of connection problems in-game, meaning I'll be spending the lion's share of my time in TF2 land, lighting cartoon characters on fire, but it's good to see POE2 still doing relatively well here.

That's a bummer, though I too enjoy TF2 so I'll settle for lighting you on fire there instead of pummeling you in a POE forest fight!

**kilevvri1** · 12-05-2007, 01:39 PM

Gahlas, I think your missing the point of this thread a bit, we all are annoyed by these people. But without leadership all things generally go astray, what we need is leadership and noobs need to have TG minded SL's irregardless of their stupidity, but in spite of it. If they only know one way to do something, they will keep doing it till someone teaches them better.

**Gahlas** · 12-05-2007, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by kilevvri1

Gahlas, I think your missing the point of this thread a bit, we all are annoyed by these people. But without leadership all things generally go astray, what we need is leadership and noobs need to have TG minded SL's irregardless of their stupidity, but in spite of it. If they only know one way to do something, they will keep doing it till someone teaches them better.

I agree they need leadership, I didn't know I came off sounding like I didn't want that.

I was just giving a few opinions on my point of view of how squad leaders are doing. I think most of them do a bang-up job. I was just making an observation.

If you are refering to the wearing the TG tag bit, there should be no exceptions or looking the other way because they squad lead.

**kilevvri1** · 12-05-2007, 02:13 PM

If you have a problem with how a specific TGer SL's PM him. It would be no help if we couldn't all voice our opinions so I am in no way ostracizing you, just trying to keep the thread on track.

**Gahlas** · 12-05-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by kilevvri1

If you have a problem with how a specific TGer SL's PM him. It would be no help if we couldn't all voice our opinions so I am in no way ostracizing you, just trying to keep the thread on track.

I think it is a valid contribution to the discussion of teamwork. When SLing, always keep inmind you are representing the community. Let in pubbies, don't lock your squad and fill it with all TGers. If you see a squad with 4 TGers in it, start a new one and let the new guys in on it. And while you are doing all this, remember to inform of the rules and follow them.

Sorry if that is off topic but I think it all fits in. I don't want to call out anyone or anything because usually it is small stuff but that small stuff might get a pubbie a warning or a kick. If he sees someone with a tag doing it, what is he going to think.

Sometimes a reminder helps us all.

**Grunt 70** · 12-05-2007, 02:24 PM

Great thread guys...always timely.

As Mosely said it comes down to communication. Remember the first few times you came on board and people were actually using voip...how amazing was that...didn't it open your eyes to a whole other realm of possibility? It did for me...I was bored and done with BF2 a month after I got it. I did a google on "BF2 Squadleader tactics" or some such thing and found TG...got on their server and after one round I was hooked...I'm still hooked. Encourage your troops at every turn...don't forget to say good job...even if you know it could've been done better. Keep reminding people this is a teamwork oriented server. We're glad your here...yada yada yada. And guys...this goes for not just the SL, but for all the TGers in squad. If the nubs see a single person following orders, and is enthusiastic about it, they won't be far behind.

I've been adminning the COD4 servers since the game came out. You all know this title is WORSE for teamwork and communication than BF2 by a long shot. The nature of the game mechanics just promote an arcade type approach and 99% of the COD4 playing public just want to R & G and level up to the next rank. We don't put up with that on our server. VOIP is required and we are suggesting strongly to acquire and use mics on a reqular basis. It was a bit rough the first couple of weeks but now we have new players returning to our server just because of the teamwork and use of voip...Over the last few weeks I've heard over and over again how the TG use of comms brings the game to a new level...and people are excited by it. Now we are experiencing tight, compteitive and communicative rounds on a regular basis.

Take a leadership role and embrace it. Sell Teamwork like your cyber life depends on it (it does !)

@ W6-I've been meaning to download the latest from POE...I'll do it in the next few days and I'll jump on and lead a squad or two

Dont get discouraged guys...a quick trip to pubby land will show you how much better we DO have it at TG...just keep on keeping on the communication bandwagon.

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