Re: Air Control Disbalance

**MercenarieVVV** · 04-12-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by SAITCHO

Since im not an air guy but rather a ground one here is my view about this map: Its among the map I hate the most as a usmc player because once you manage to grab a flag and try to defend it you have close to nothing to defend against air units. The static AA gun are very close to useless since its gonna be the first thing any decent pilot will take out, the pickups kits are more annoying to the other side than usefull. The only option left to defend against helos is the tanks wich isnt really what they are designed for. My suggestion for that map and all the others with static aa emplacement is either have two of them so they can cover each other or have maybe 3 possible spawn point and randomly spawn at one of them so they dont get shot right off the bat.

Wow that will be tasty idea for pilots

So many easy frags. The problem is - stationary AA r quite effective against helos, but plane pilots can easily take two or three one by one.

I think that Odessa shows the air balance nobody have advantage. Greasy would say about mirror.... Well road to hell does not have mirror aviation, but it is still pretty much balanced. I can not say that Froggie is a mirror of Tornado, but both planes with right pilots r very deadly. I still think that Euro is couple steps ahead from Foxbat, but it is still pretty useful against helos and as a cover for the Froggie.

**SAITCHO** · 04-12-2008, 02:59 PM

Stationary are effective egainst rookies chopper pilot or greedy ones who simply want to racks too many kills on the flag. All the experienced ones knows the AA dead zone and will attack from that spot. Each time I step into one I know my survival chances dropped quite a lot.

**Magonushi** · 04-15-2008, 09:02 PM

Major problem with the f-18 right now is that the gunner has 4 bombs, those bombs have the AOE of a RPG, and the gunner has a hard time at identifying Armor at a reasonable bombing height. All other bombers have some sort of heat signature, even the hind's guided ASMs have heat detection of a sort visa via the AAM radar.

If the f-18 gets bomb clips like the tornado and some heat signature detection I can easily see the air imbalance being a bit more even. The US will be able to count on better bombing from the air, while the UKR maintains better AA capabilities.

The main problem now is not that the f-18 is bad against other air targets, it's that it doesn't perform well as a bomber, it's intended role.

**Namebot** · 04-16-2008, 12:27 AM

The F-18 bombs are player guided, meaning that once someone figures out how to use them and gets good they are going to be much more deadly than the locking missiles of the tornado. They are also one hit kill on everything. These two points need to be taken into account if any changes are suggested.

The potential is there.

**Smokeyandthebandit** · 04-16-2008, 01:00 PM

Could always make it to where a Shilka spawns as the mobile AA until the US starts to cap out flags and gets a bleed going, then a SA-13 spawns. (Similar to Guardian where Su-27's spawn in when a certain flag gets capped.)

**FBmantis** · 04-16-2008, 04:23 PM

You can only tie in vehicle spawns to single flags...there is no way for the game logic to yield a different vehicle if 4/5 flags are held by the enemy for example.

**lawndartleo** · 04-16-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by COUNTER=OPS

There is no fairness in war!! Someone always has the upper hand. It is how you handle your assets as to whether or not you win the round

Correct, but in true warfar you never engage the enemy on their terms. Yet in our little virtual world we are forced to engage the enemy on their terms due to the nature of the game.

**Magonushi** · 04-16-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Namebot

The F-18 bombs are player guided, meaning that once someone figures out how to use them and gets good they are going to be much more deadly than the locking missiles of the tornado. They are also one hit kill on everything. These two points need to be taken into account if any changes are suggested.

The potential is there.

Yes they are one shot, one kill on anything, but in my experience they are the hardest guided munition to deal with. The bomb's camera grays and blurs everything, no heat signature is ever given, and the bombs usually have to be released above visual range. As it is now the f-18's gunner is less then half as effective as the tornado's. He has less munitions, cannot fire multiple bombs/missiles per strafe, and has major visual hindrances. Hell the f-18 gunner can't even get a cockpit view to help spot enemy aircraft, a crucial role the tornado gunner has no problem filling.

Side Note: Smoking a tornado really isn't that effective. If the pilot and gunner are working together then they'll just turn around and kill the tank on a quick return strafe.

**Namebot** · 04-16-2008, 08:03 PM

Hmm, that just reminded me that Tornado gives warning. F-18 does also, but from my experience the warning is 1-2 seconds before impact. You can try to disrupt Tornado lock and at least know when you need to try to do so. F-18 on the other hand... gives nearly zero chance.

I am not sure that the F-18 is okay, I just want to point these things out. It is one of the hardest pieces of equipment to use and requires a lot of coordination.

**MercenarieVVV** · 04-16-2008, 09:15 PM

That is why nobody use it at all. It may be have the heaviest bombs but what the use of them if nobody can hit anything. U just do not see anything, and second thing -this plane does not live long enough to bomb effectively. Island is tooo small and helo + aa gives F-18 pilot no chance in flying low anywhere soo f-18 is not only very ineffective as a bomber but also very easy target.
Anyway the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness if u will) of F-18 proved a lot of times by unbelievably low scores of their pilots.

**the7thguest** · 04-17-2008, 01:18 AM

If I am US I still like the SAM on that map - IF I have a commander on duty...
My best (TLAM) round was 63 kills and I think it was about 15 or 20 times the SAM.

Nuthing better than a Tomahawk and a good Commander...

To the Jets, well, I've to practise more, I am a real advanced pilot usually (in any game) but in POE i need more training... So no comment from my side here.

Regards
7th

**FBmantis** · 04-17-2008, 05:40 AM

The potential for the F18 is definitely there. Its a bit weak in current form but come next patch you guys on the UKR ground are going to hate that vehicle when the right people are manning it. Heres a video of what me and shotcha did one round a bit back. It requires a lot of coordination and right now the results are half the time not worth the manpower but its fun playing around with imo.

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