gator skywalker

I see a lot of funky stuff while playing this game and it gets really old after a while. I understand that there are certain funky things that happen when playing the game that cause you to get killed. This is often called "game mechanics." It seems that if these "game mechanics" are so unpredictable as many claim and as I have seen then they should affect us all. Yet, there are a few of us that seem to get around them every time. Here is what I want:

First, list the things you see that seem to be "game mechanics."

Second, to those who seem to get around them every time, could you please explain how you avoid dying when in this situation?

I will start with two "game mechanics" issues.

1. Shooting someone through a hill/wall/roof. You start shooting at an opponent and
he/she fires back. You back down below a hill so you can no longer see said opponent.
Yet, they still shoot you and kill you.

2. You are in a tank and you sneak up on an enemy tank from the side, 90 degree angle
away. The enemy tank is in the middle of a firefight to the front. Right as you
approach to fire, the enemy tank somehow heard you/sensed you/ saw you, turns and
fires a dead on shot. No fellow enemies are in range for a spot.

Assume that in both cases both people have the same ping.

I am not typing this to be spiteful or angry, but am genuinely curious. I have been playing for quite a while and I feel that I know how the game should and should not react and sometimes it seems to defy logic. I enjoy playing the game a lot until stuff like this happens and it really ruins the fun. Of course, no one ever says anything, but I really think these are serious issues and I think this is one of the things that is driving some players away.

jb4

I have been a victim of the one shot tank kill also. I have no explanation for it. Full health with my tank pointed directly toward the opponent (with strongest armor forward), get hit with one round and blam. game over I have no idea if there are weak spots in the front like getting hit directly in the turret or if this is just a bug like the "no damage after multiple hits" T-80 bug. I agree that is seems to be just a weird thing in the game, but it is curious.

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SAITCHO

The one shot tank kill is when a shell hit you once in a wedge and ricochet back to give you a second hit. I rarely see it happening.

Soulless

In reference to the number 1.

If I remember correctly, the bf2 engine has your point of view actually being in the middle of your chest, or was it your gun. Anyways, it means that when someone is barely out of your sight, you probably still have 2 or 3 ft exposed.

This is common in the bf series, it was the same way in 42/DC.

I wonder if it will be the same in bf3.

Also, the hitboxes have always been somewhat odd. I remember in DC, just cuz someone is crouches down behind a sandbag and you can't see him, if you still shoot you'll probably still register some hits. BF2 has a few spots like that as well.

You see this most often with snipers high up, they push forward so that they can get a shot at a steeper angle and it exposes them pretty nicely to people they can't see who are right below them.

Mr.McFeelme

I have no inside info on how the BF2 game engine works, and i am an amateur programmer (at best). So anyone who knows more please chime in and/or correct my mistakes.

If someone has a 50 ping to the server, that means roughly that their game is getting information from the server every 50 milliseconds. 50 milliseconds = 0.05 seconds. another way to express this: in one second the game will receive 20 updates. (1/0.05 = 20)

If the game only updated the screen when it got data from the server, your game would be running at 20 frames per second.
(ping of 25 = 40 fps, ping 100 = 10fps)

At those framerates, the game would be awful. So BF2 employs some sort of prediction/interpolation algorithm to draw more frames than it has data.

for example, I would guess that if you see a soldier running down the road, the game draws the soldier based on the info it gets from the server. Then keeps moving the soldier in the same direction and speed until your game gets another update from the server.

but what happens if the person controlling that character changes direction, or flops to the ground? you won't see it until 1) the person controlling the soldier's game sends its data to the server and 2) then the server sends it to your game.

But its not just you and the other player sending things back and forth, there are 62 other people doing the same thing. so 64 people are getting constant updates on the other 63 people. Thats a lot of data to send in real time.

The game uses UDP for transmitting the player updates (i think)
Unlike TCP, there is no error correction or delivery confirmation. (But UDPs simplicity also means it is faster than tcp -- thats why its used)

So, with UDP, a program specifies an IP address and a port number and sends off the message. It gets no confirmation that the message was received and has no ability to know if the data sent wasn't garbled somewhere along the way. It doesn't even know if there is anything 'listening' on the port and IP addr that it sent it to.

So your game is sending and receiving packets of data. What happens when the data arrives too fast for your computer to process it? It piles up in a buffer, but if the buffer gets full the incoming data is ignored. its gone. So if you get into a game situation that is very computationally intense (explosions smoke, etc), the program slows down --- messages start piling up in the buffer -- buffer gets full, messages discarded -- intense situation over -- start processing messages in the buffer again. Now the gap in the data does not occur until all of the buffered messages have been processed. So even though you see your framerate drop when the explosion/smoke happens, you don't experience the effect of the missing data until after that event is over.

I'm starting to get incoherent. honestly I'm amazed that BF2 works as well as it does.

FBmantis

They killed you before you went behind the hill...it just took a short time for the server to send that data to you. So you had a 80ms window or however long it was where you still see yourself as alive when you really were already killed.

How do you know no other enemies are there? You don't. Plus they easily could have heard you. I have no idea on your sound setup but in my case I hear everything coming unless there is some major background noise. All it takes is one sniper bullet and I likely have a general idea where you are if I heard it...I'm sure quite a few players are like this. Tanks I hear coming from quite a ways away.

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PhoenixxFire

To add to this: in the case of Hills, the BF2 engine renders them rather strangely, in that the farther away you are from "rough edges" on the tops of hills, the less of them you see. This essentially makes the tops of most hilltops (about 1 to 2 meters, or so) transparent when viewing them at a distance. However they are fully rendered when you are actually on the hill, or when viewing the hill from a distance with a scope.


This is also the case with me. Directional sound is an incredible tool at being able to find hidden players, or at being able to note players that you havent actually seen yet.

To add to this as well: There is a technique that can be used which is based on experience, and as a developed skill. It can be used to determine the way a specific player (or players) will move, by simply seeing them at one point previous to their actual contact, whether it be a Minimap spot, or an actual visual contact. (Its rather instinctive, and would probably result in a convoluted explanation if I tried to go too in depth but Ill summarize as best as possible.)

It essentially involves knowing a previous single position and a general vector of approach (Sometimes you can even estimate what this might be if you know your opponent well enough *cough*mantis*cough*), and then adding your knowledge of the environment, as well as knowledge of timing (walking/running, fast vehicle, apc/tank would determine when you think theyll get to any position), and overlaying them all to create a sort of map in your head of where someone will be without actually seeing them.

Its rather strange for me to explain, but suffice it to say that it works pretty well for me.


By the way mantis: Your avatar scared the crap out of me when I noticed something moving, and I saw that damn frame for what seemed like forever.

Iamthefallen

5.1 surround headsets seem to help people immensely in pinpointing enemy locations.

As far as getting shot when you're behind any cover, or a corner or building:
Mr.McFeelme talked about the technology behind it some, one thing that happens is that between the frames the client will draw animations or movement and then correct it when it gets an update from the server. When those get way out of whack you see the rubber banding phenomenon. You start to move, your client draws you moving, the packet doesn't reach the server and when you receive an update, you're snapped back to where you were and where the server thinks you are.

Here's a primer, dealing with Quake3, but the principles still apply. The second page has a bit more information and some pictures.

I've been killed a good 10 feet+ after turning a corner, but when I'm revived again I come up right at the corner, where the server thought I was at the time of death. Another factor is that it only takes a a single toe to be visible to kill someone... You may think you're well hidden, but an elbow or foot is sticking out just enough to register hits.

Slightly related: One thing that I see mentioned on the server now and then are questions like "how could they know that I was inside the building/behind the rock/in that crater". They probably didn't. They just thought it seemed like a good place for someone to hide and threw a grenade or HEAP round at it, just in case.

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draeh

This usually happens to me when retreating around a corner. It "appears" that I make it around the corner and then I'm dead. Still, its not bad for realtime netcode that is 4-5 years old.

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Smokeyandthebandit

I always rely on quickly spotting out targets visually and don't rely as much on hearing. Constatly I'm pressing C while in all vehicles and circling my turret alot to catch even a glimpse of any potentional targets. Also I pay attention to the minimap when my team spots out tanks/apcs/squadsand can then find a way to circle behind them and take 'em out. (That's the achilles heel of why I suck with infantry though, especially up close.)

Oh, and yea, firing HEAP/AP round RPG's at known hiding spots is also a preventive measure so you don't have a whole squad tumbling down on you when you least expect it.

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khaerus

Man, we've gone through everything on this list before- so much so that these threads are getting to be "game mechanic" in and of themselves. Anyway:

1. Good headphones and a good sound card make a HUGE difference in all aspects of the game for me.

2. Don't hang out by walls or ledges. Remember that one for more than ten minutes.

3. Don't assume you know ANYTHING about where anyone else is or isn't. Ever. You can play odds, but as we've come to see, some people are better than others at guessing the odds, just like in real life. If experience has shown that you're a bad guesser, than learn to take that into account the next time you need to guess... and play it safer.

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westyfield

I think the viewpoint is in your stomach/bottom of your ribs. I saw some pictures here a while ago of someone in 2142 lying on a beacon. To them it looked like their head was on the beacon, to another person it looked like they had their stomach on the beacon. If anyone could link to them, that may help.

I hope not...

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gator skywalker

I meant when I watch the BR files and see no team in a position to spot.

tHa_KhAn

Sound usually. As mentioned several times, good 5.1 headphones and good sound card are great weapons. Also map familiarity. If you play certain maps enough, you are familiar with the better cover positions. Couple that with the sound and like Mantis said, one sniper round is good enough to go knife someone that is "hidden." The other biggie is spotting, commander spotting is often over looked. Sniper spotting and random spot spamming are also effective tools for finding sneaky enemies.

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gator skywalker

I have an XFI Fatal1ty Gamer sound card with Sennheiser Headphones so I should be fine with sound. I tried the Razer Headphones, but they sounded like crap so I have them and the Razer sound card sitting around.

Is there a particular setting that you recommend? Do I have my effects sound too high? Too low?