Ping and Connection Explanation

gator skywalker · 08-26-2008, 11:59 PM

I am giving everyone a chance to explain these issues to the world.
Scenario 1:
I go play on a European server during the day and I have a ping of 120. I cannot hit the side of a barn due to lag. I am told the reason I am seeing unusual things and not able to hit is lag. Fine. Then I play on the TG server and I am battling people with 100 plus pings while I have a ping of 40 and they have no trouble hitting me at all. This seems to contradict all know ideas about ping. If someone could give me a scientific explanation of why I am getting screwed both ways, I would appreciate it.

Scenario 2:
My issues on the server have been explained with the idea that my download speed, 15MB/sec, and my upload speed, 1MB/sec, are different so it causes issues with aiming. It was explained to me to be very unpredictable in nature. This makes sense until I see people on the server who are constantly having high kill to death ratios and seem to hit everything they shoot at. Now, I understand that hours and hours of playing help one aim better, but if this concept is so unpredictable, why does it not affect those players?

I know people have tried to explain these things many times, but as you can see above, there explanation seem to fall short considering what I have written.

Thanks in advance for those people who are willing to explain.

**sordavie** · 08-27-2008, 12:15 AM

Fine fine I'll admit it. Everyone turns on their hacks when they see you on the other team.

Rick_Slick · 08-27-2008, 01:08 AM

What type of connection do you have? DSL, cable, satellite, etc?

If you say satellite, I am going to plant my face in my hands and shake it sadly. If you have any sort of anti-virus program running in the background while you play, I am going to plant my face in my hands and shake it sadly.

But what exactly are you trying to get at? I'll say it because no one else will: There are threads where you blame ping, you blame graphics details, resolution, etc, etc. Maybe you're just not that good at aiming for the head or leading your target? No offense, but that's the most probable common denominator with all the frustration you have been having.

The people on TG are good. Most have better reflexes than I do. Most know the maps better than I do. I get outflanked. I get shanked in the back. I expect that going in. There are times that I plant five rounds into a dude and he turns around and caps me instantly. I know it's because I still aim for center of mass instead of flipping the mouse up for the headshot. I don't have that sort of coordination yet, nor do I play 3-4 hours a night to gain that coordination. In the end, it's just a game. Sometimes I get the drop on a guy, most of the times I get slaughtered and try to learn from it.

**Axis of Eeevil** · 08-27-2008, 04:23 AM

I have 120+ pretty much all the time, and some nights I do better, others worse. SOmetimes I'm amazed that I killed the guy way over there with 2 bullets while he was running and I was standing, sometimes I'm amazed that the guys I just single-shotted 8 or nine times in the head as he was swimming came out of the water and popped three rounds into me at full health and I'm dead.

Unless it's the same guys over and over, I just whimper to myself "no fair!" and eat more chocolate.

Seriously, I like you Gator, but you and Raunchy Berd are the complainin'-est dudes on there when you're having a bad night, and everyone has to hear about how wrong it is, something funny is going on, etc.

Try to roll with it and just keep playing, or do something about it like come here and post day, time, map and name to check BFR files for hacks.

We're shooting electrons thousands of miles down wires from 50 different computers, and every bullet, every object, every toon has to be tracked in realtime, snedt back to our 50 different computers and adjusted for ping so everything makes some kind of sense. In a way I'd say it's amazing we can play at all.

Damn, I grew up looking at Zork, son.

DrunkenPirate · 08-27-2008, 09:38 AM

TG aint no kiddies playground gator, some of the best people in BF2 are regulars here.
I play EU servers and random vanilla servers and I tear the place up without breaking a sweat, I come on to TG's POE server and I'm suddenly 'average' with the occasional good round.

I'm sorry but that's all I have to say.

**Superfast** · 08-27-2008, 10:06 AM

Ping has nothing to do with ingame skill. With good twitch, tactical movement and know-how of the maps one can do pretty ok. I have around 120 ms and i still have fun.

Your 15mb/1mb should be totally ok as long as you don't download loads of stuff while you play. The latency on your link is determined by your provider and their routing to TG's provider. So if you google on how to ping the TG servers ip-adresses on your machine and check out the latency when you have nothing running you can compare to others in your area. You may have a bad connection or your provider may suck in general with regards to latency.

**Iamthefallen** · 08-27-2008, 12:10 PM

Technically, a few things matter:

Bandwidth
15/1 should be plenty. You may be saturating your upload bandwidth because of the 15:1 ratio, but I don't think BF2 is pushing enough data to do it. With emphasis on "I think".

Latency (Ping)
Below 100 you should be OK with some minor issues. Below 50 you shouldn't have any real issues.

Packetloss
You can have low ping and solid bandwidth, but if you're losing packets along the way, your local client will have to extrapolate and make a guess at where people are and will be while it waits for the next packet with information to come through.

If you fire at someone, and the packet that said "Gator was here and shot in this direction" is lost, the server will never know you pulled the trigger.

In BF2, I don't think you can see or track the packet loss. (I miss my lagometer)

BF2 Engine
It's far from perfect. It's nearly impossible to hit someone running perpendicular to you for example. Just don't waste your ammo. In my view BF2 is also extremely sensitive to network problems, where rubber banding starts very quickly and has a drastic effects. Back in Ye Olde Days of Quake 3/RtCW I could compensate for it somewhat and still be playing. In BF2 I run and hide until it's over.

And finally non-technical issues
Using the weapons right and playing a tactically sound game.

There are lots of threads on how POE weapons work, each weapon is different, and requires a different approach. Make sure you understand them all. Missing when full auto with the VEPR probably isn't a networking issue, but just the nature of the weapon.

Maps also require different tactics. There's not a one-style fits all. If you play Fallen and Olesko Keep the same way, your k:d ratio will suffer.

Realize that you may just simply have a crappy connection or other issues getting in the way!

If that's true, and you want to enjoy the game, you must play differently to accommodate those problems, always pay attention to what works and what doesn't. Your connection may be out of your control, but your in-game tactics aren't.

Try playing spec ops for a while where you don't have body armor or a grenade launcher and only have a light carbine. You will be outgunned and just a few bullets will kill you. Make your objective not to get kills, but to stay alive and end the game with very few deaths. Initially you will die a lot, but you will learn where and how to use cover and concealment, you will learn to plan your movements and angles of attack to accommodate any hardware issues.

Packet loss or no loss, low or high ping, dropping a grenade from behind on a prone sniper will kill them dead.

Failing all this, play the game so that network issues aren't as important as they are in CQB. Arty, mortar, sniper, armor, SL, CO, medic, engineer etc etc etc.

Basically, if you're not having fun, do something different.

**WhiskeySix** · 08-27-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamthefallen

Technically, a few things matter:

...

Basically, if you're not having fun, do something different.

bingo

+rep

ThaGoat · 08-27-2008, 02:29 PM

I blame Al Gore cuz he invented tha "Internets".........

Fallens response for the win.....everything in that is "Game Mechanics". Learn how they work then adjust your playing style. I do it everyday Gator. My ping averages 80 to over 100. On the EU servers i'm above 200 and still play well. Because I adjust what i'm doing. Also pay heed to what DrunkenPirate said. Quality and Skill are higher on the TG server compared to other servers.

**Example** EU server, my ping is averaging 220. I will not fly, most likely no armor. I'll prob grab an AMR find me a cozy spot and snipe. That way my system is only updating the vehicles and toons running within my field of view. My system is not having to update constantly the entire field of view. If i'm in a tank survival is prob bout 40% less, in an aircraft (faster speed) my survival is down to prob 20% against other people.
In other words lower the workload on your CPU and it having to guess where and what your doing next as opposed to what the other players are doing.
Welcome to Game Mechanics 101.....enjoy the day!

**sordavie** · 08-27-2008, 02:40 PM

Didn't we just have a discussion about "game mechanics" a few months ago? http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...mechanics.html Gator doesn't appear to buy that explanation. We need a new explanation.

**Iamthefallen** · 08-27-2008, 03:02 PM

BTW, you may want to download and try WeGame and record and review or share events as they appeared on your monitor. It'd be easier to be able to give a specific explanation for an event rather than a general "it's the nature of online gaming".

Mr.McFeelme · 08-27-2008, 03:33 PM

Your upload/download speed is not the problem. BF2 doesn't send a whole lot of data back and forth, it sends a little bit a lot of times. I have never measured it with poe, but with vanilla, it sends 32k and receives 96k per second. So any intetnet connection faster than 128k is not going to be bandwith constrained.

But those tiny packets are being sent and received continuously. Anything that interrupts that flow can cause lag. Flow interruptions could be caused by your computer or by any computer between you and the game server.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Network...NetMeter.shtml This is what i used when I was looking at my connection. It is a small (free) program that charts your upload and download throughput. Start it up and then play a game of POE. If you are experiencing lag, exit POE and look at the graph. When your connection is working properly, you should see a (nearly) flat line for both your upload and download speeds. If it bounces around, then you can start looking at ways to fix it.

**troublesome4u** · 08-27-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamthefallen

BTW, you may want to download and try WeGame and record and review or share events as they appeared on your monitor. It'd be easier to be able to give a specific explanation for an event rather than a general "it's the nature of online gaming".

I suggest the same thing. Record yourself playing from your perspective in-game not from the BR. Use the tab button so I can see your ping and K/D every now and then. Post the video and we'll review it. Perhaps I'll post a video of me playing.

popkern · 08-27-2008, 08:28 PM

My ping is frequently the worst on TG, or anywhere for that matter, its a way of life anymore lol.

Also, I remember you whining last night after I killed you a few times about 'how someone with a 100+ ping can kill you faster'..trust me anyone on TG is prolly so used to having a ****ty ping they know what to do to adjust. I have my ****ty nights and good nights, I dont blame my or anyones ping for anything in fact it never even enters my train of thought.

But, that said, the constant whining on text is really un-needed, I play these farkin games to escape reality, my RL is full of bitching and whining, do NOT want it in teh virtual kingdom..last night it was enough for me to log off due to the fun being no more..end it

**khaerus** · 08-27-2008, 09:36 PM

The thread is close to closing, so let's keep it constructive, if such a thing can be had from this. We have frustrations voiced, and the responses to those frustrations seem to be frustrations as well- so we'll all be critical of our own responses before any further posts here, please, before we need to close this thing.

On a slightly different but thoroughly repetitious note: regardless of how frustrated a person is, the server in-game is NOT the place to bring repeated complaints, and we have dedicated areas of the forums for these complaints as well- please use our resources properly. The Admin team hopes it's clear we take all these concerns seriously...

I personally feel we (and that's ALL of us!) have done an exceptional job of maintaining a good place to play this game. I'd like to think that there are lots of others who feel the same. Let's enjoy our time here the best we can, as positively as possible, with minimal negative impact on others.