rockford_69

I want to know what is wrong with people spaming a flag with acp fire from behind a wall is not TG


well last night or tonight we were on green acers and someone ( name to save the person in fame) was just killing everone who spawned

now i understand on a scrim it works but when we are trying to get server pop up and people are leaveing for spawn camp

now i put this in it chat and i got back i am defending my flag

well that is bull s*** as we can't kill you and you know it behind a wall

and i died so many times from you and your splash damage





now with that said is it cool to do that or do we want new people to play here

it made me so made as to leave but i thought why should i for someone that wants to play like that


the person that was doing this is one of the best players on this server and might have been just having one of those nights

even tough drunkn and i told him many times what was goinig on




sorry if this offended anyone but it had to be brought out


RockFord

jmaker

I mean what is that person supposed to do? Stay at the southern flag and not utilize his asset? Did you want him to come out in the open so you could kill him? I highly doubt his thought process was to spawn camp you at that middle flag. Are spawn points really on the southern side of that flag? Blame it on the short distance between those flags.

If you knew he was hitting that flag hard, why not take cover? Just don't run to that side.

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WhiskeySix

dude - you must be fuming, cause that's like shattered glass in my eyeballs to read


So what exactly happened? Someone was in an APC near farmhouse pinning down/killing everyone at Chernihiv? Did you have to spawn there? Was the APC supporting an infantry push? (i.e. could you have just stayed away from him or was the flag threatened?)

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Reflexes are for mistakes only. Reaction implies surprise. Be surprised less.

Rick_Slick

Actually, it's highly TG (i.e. tactical)... minimize the risk to your asset while maximizing the damage to the enemy, assuming you are not talking about a UCB. Is there a reason that people kept re-spawning there? Couldn't a squad leader have come in from a different flag and provided a spawn point for his squad, have his squad spawn in as AT, and take the APC out? Can we only fire from vehicles if we are out in the open, now?

Just because your team made a poor tactical decision to keep respawning under suppression fire does not automatically make what the APC was doing "non-TG". TG is not about wheeling your APC out into the open to give the newly-spawned guys a sporting chance on a capturable flag so they don't whine. I think it would be "non-TG" to expect us to "dumb down" our play and make it easier for people to cap flags just to keep the population up when your team is making the wrong decision about where to spawn.

gator skywalker

Spawn camping is not TG, it is lame. It takes no skill to sit on a spawn point and shoot people as they spawn. It is the very reason we do not have a ranked server. Plain and simple, it is a very unfun thing to do and it really does cause people to leave the server.

Grunt 70

Adapt. Overcome. Git er done.

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ParkBench

rock et al,

I was not the one in the APC, but I had a dingo for a good period of time. on the opposite corner. I commented in TS about how absurd the super wall was. Troublesome couldn't hit the dingo with a tank shell. (think about that a second...)

ok... I'm not one to agree with spawn camping... and I really felt like I was being accused of it as I sat in my dingo picking off infantry coming over the hill attacking the flag.

Green Acres started, I jumped in. Joined Squad. "asked what I could do, and I was told by SL that he was defending Lumber Mill with 2-3 others, and I should spawn Wheat Silo with another squad member and defend there.

2-3 guys trying to defend a key (armor producing) flag, isn't easy. Firing into the spawn radius of another flag.. is opportunistic...

I will say, at least our team WAS attacking that center flag, and the action of apc and dingo were in defense and in support of our own forces.

I don't know how to 'fix' this, or any other map with 'issues'. We, as TG, members can decide whats the TG thing, or the right thing... but unless you spend time here, reading, or spend time in the TS channel. You don't know whats been decided.

so getting killed when you spawn on a flag that appears simply too close to another flag (for an Armor Map), rates up there with getting sniped while defending a flag that the opposing forced aren't attacking.

on a good night, TG forum members, as opposed to guys who where the tags but don't ever come to the forums and discuss the state of the nation, represent about 50% of the players... so changes decided here... really have a limited audience.

so... to address these things, we need to do it at map, mod, server level. I think. Can you adjust the spawn radius of the center flag / move the flag from its current spot, to shelter if from wheat silo firing? can a static be added, or the out of bound expanded to the south east, so you can more easily attack from farm?

he lost the round pretty badly. but, only lost wheat silo flag for a bit, and got it back.
I don't have the answers, and I do come here read and post... so if something else is decided... I'll comply.

Can we talk about the commander change? : ) does the new revision to the rule make for an UBER-lonewolfer with a bigger mega-phone? : )

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DrunkenPirate

You can't hit the APC from Chernihiv when it id behind that wall at Wheat Silo.
If the APC was being used to pick off infantry that were pushing for Wheat Silo, wasting people that spawn at Chernihiv (which we needed to because 2 squads were pushing on it) and racking up kills at no risk to yourself whatsoever is pretty cheap in my eyes.
I will point out however that even though said person went 95-1 and had almost 200 points, we beat their team by 45 tickets to 0, so this reclaims some satisfaction from that round.
I would also point out that back in 2006 when I was with the PTG clan, I was admin on our PTG City Maps Only server that was ranked 1 in the world for 8 months back in 06 and I kicked people for doing this exact same thing at the Hotel flag on Karkand. All of them would use the same excuse of "I'm supressing infantry" when infact all that was happening was blatant spawn camping.
Also going to see if we can get that wall replaced by a lower one that will allow AT rockets to fly back, or a higher one that won't allow the APC to shoot over it at all.

Yes Rockford was mad when he wrote that, so was I at that time.

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Portable.Cougar

Absolutly

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Bear61

personally I didn't mind it.Think he only killed me once, I just tried to stay out of his firing lanes. We revived most of his kills, and knew he couldn't cap our flag from over there. So no big deal really. It was an epic round defending Chernihiv. Good job squad we never relented no matter what they threw at us.

ParkBench

DP,
I think this sort of adjustment is best. As it doesn't matter if the player is TG, or reads our guidelines, they understand.. "what the heck happened to the wall?" while you're looking at that. need a bench to sit on near the flag.

thanks man.

-pb

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Park Bench

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WhiskeySix

bingo.



Also.. there's a difference between "spawn killing" and "spawn camping"... the former is ok, the latter will get you kicked/banned. From the FFoW Rules:

Things that do NOT break any rules:
- While attacking a CP, you get surprised by someone spawning and kill them before they move.
- Shelling a CP from far away with no intention of capturing that CP. (not a terribly useful tactic, but it doesn't violate any rules)
- Constantly bombarding a CP from a helicopter with the sole intention of killing enemy soldiers.

Things that DO break the rules (Spawn Camping):
- Hiding with a weapon aimed at a known spawn point, waiting for players to 'appear'
- Placing claymores on known spawn points
- Placing C4 on known spawn points
- ANY action that deliberately exploits spawn-point locations.

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Reflexes are for mistakes only. Reaction implies surprise. Be surprised less.

Rick_Slick

It also takes no skill to fly a plane over to a spawn point and drop bombs on infantry trying to capture it. It also takes no skill for a sniper to sit on a hill and pick off guys spawning at a capturable flag with the AM rifle. It takes no skill to shoot someone in the back or while they are reloading because they did not know you were there or cannot return fire. It takes no skill to pop a frag grenade over to a group of guys and watch them all die.

Are we seriously going to sit here and whine about one team letting an APC of the enemy team roll over to a tactically advantageous position and provide suppression fire in support of the enemy team's assault on the flag on a TACTICAL gamer server?

Every single person crying foul on this is a whiner and has no place engaging in tactical combat on this server, from which the fun is derived. YOUR fun is coming from "not getting pwned by someone better than me or who picked a better spot to park their APC" and then coming here and claiming it's "non-TG" to do that. That is BS. Just like a few people above me said... adapt and overcome. You have all the assets at your team's disposal to deal with that APC... either by preventing it from getting to that spot in the first place (now you know to C4/mine the hell out of the location, right?) or by continuing to respawn at the flag you KNOW is under heavy suppression fire from an APC and crying about it when you die. Everyone who respawned there instead of respawning at a different flag and making their way to the APC from a different direction and dealing with it, from a tactical perspective, deserved the shellacking they got.

I'll be first to make a snide comment in chat when Namebot or SAITCHO is whoring up a dingo or armor and giving a particular flag hell, or if Dirty Berd is racking up kills with the AM rifle from some hill somewhere... but in the end it is my team's responsibility to a) prevent them from getting to that superior firing position, and b) to deal with the threat just like any other unit in the game.

WhiskeySix already posted the applicable TG rules above.

"- Shelling a CP from far away with no intention of capturing that CP. (not a terribly useful tactic, but it doesn't violate any rules)"

So there you go... yes, it is in fact TG, and if people are leaving the server over it, these are people who are not interested in making a tactical decision to spawn elsewhere and adapt and overcome. They are the ones that don't belong on a TACTICAL gamer server. They are the ones less likely to follow orders in squad. They are the ones more likely to give up too easily and not apply tactics or strategy to overcoming the enemy that has found a better tactic. Maybe it is better that they return to a POE2 server where the players are of a lower caliber and wouldn't think to park an APC there and suppress the enemy forces spawning in so their team can get the flag.

Sorry, but it had to be said. I do not want this server to become all gimped-up by people who have no sense of working together as a team to overcome a challenge.

SAITCHO

A suggestion to try and fix that is to have selectable spawn locations on each flag,similar to some flags on snakes eyes, so if you know someone is picking up spawner from far away you could select a spawn inside a building.

jb4

Yes, choice of spawn point is a good thing, but in this case, nobody was picking off a spawner or camping the spawn. I was there at the middle point. The APC had a superior firing position and the people getting killed were running out into the open in full view on that side of the point. Every spawn was protected and if you stayed away you did not get killed. Wheat Silo has superior strategic value for this exact reason. High walls allow you stay protected and you have a clear view from the Windmill all the way to the town. Sure, it can be annoying when you are taking suppressive fire, but you always have the choice to attack the enemy asset to overcome it. Definitely not spawn camping. Fully agree with Rick and Whiskey's posts above.

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