Re: Friendly reminder

**WhiskeySix** · 10-05-2008, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by SAITCHO

.... A good sniper can get kills but also provide something else, fear factor. The defenders wont be as comfortable defending a position knowing their brain could leave their body on short notice.

exactly - I was in the squad defending Farm on Berezne, and we basically couldn't go on the road (west) side of the flag. With the SVD/M24, you don't get that affect, but with the DSR1 or either AMR, you can give the same area-denial technique that long-range armor can provide.

Originally Posted by khaerus

...
Regardless of sniper-love or sniper-hate, the guys in your squad gotta follow the orders, and if one of those orders is "no snipers," that's the end of that discussion...

Exactly.

**Mr.McFeelme** · 10-06-2008, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

Why would you have to do this if it is your view is that the sniper can't do any more that any other kit could do? Why don't you just kill him from where you are with your m16? According to you, the m16 on single shot is just as good as any sniper kit. Don't complain that sneaking out to get a sniper is boring if your view is that you can get the sniper from where ever the sniper can get you. If that's your view, no sneaking is necessary. Why the heck are you sneaking out there if you can shoot him from where you are!?

"Oh crap, I have to sneak out to kill that pesky sniper again, even though I could shoot them from where I am with my m16 on single shot. Still, I'll sneak out there so I can complain about how boring it is to sneak out there." Right...

The not-so-pesky snipers are pretty easy to pick off. But a good sniper --whether using an assault rifle or a sniper gun-- takes a little more effort to locate. Like it or not, it is my opinion that playing hide and seek is no fun. You have a different opinion and are entitled to it. Isn't America wonderful?

As for the claymore thing, it's as much fault of the friendlies as with the sniper setting the claymore. Look for the freakin' red crossbones dude! Same thing happens with AT mines. People don't watch where they're going. You can't place complete blame for TKs on the mine setters. I don't see you complaining about the Engineer and AT kits. Heck, I've had more friendlies run over my AT mines than get killed by my claymores and I play sniper far more often than I play Engineer or AT.

When you are out hiding on some distant hillside feel free to spam those claymores. I doubt anyone has a problem with that. The problem arises when snipers drop claymores at flags. Somebody spawning in doesn't know where the claymores are. If the claymores are in grass or the side of a building, you can see the red skull, but you cannot tell if that is a claymore, AT mine or C4.

The only time I have a problem with AT mines are when someone lays out an impassible row of them. As long as the mine layer leaves a way for friendly vehicles to pass, there is no problem.

**ThaGoat** · 10-06-2008, 03:49 PM

I'm still a big advocate of removing claymores from the game. Being a sniper and in the scope should be a greater risk of someone flanking you or sneaking up behind you. Plus, as I always say, leaving claymores at the flags is uber bad. People confuse them with C4 charges and then "boom" you get punished.
I got kicked off the WW german server over the weekend for planting C4 at a flag. They are now strict about leaving claymores or C4 on flags. I dont agree with the C4 restriction, but I do agree with the claymore.

**sordavie** · 10-06-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.McFeelme

The not-so-pesky snipers are pretty easy to pick off. But a good sniper --whether using an assault rifle or a sniper gun-- takes a little more effort to locate. Like it or not, it is my opinion that playing hide and seek is no fun. You have a different opinion and are entitled to it. Isn't America wonderful?

When you are out hiding on some distant hillside feel free to spam those claymores. I doubt anyone has a problem with that. The problem arises when snipers drop claymores at flags. Somebody spawning in doesn't know where the claymores are. If the claymores are in grass or the side of a building, you can see the red skull, but you cannot tell if that is a claymore, AT mine or C4.

The only time I have a problem with AT mines are when someone lays out an impassible row of them. As long as the mine layer leaves a way for friendly vehicles to pass, there is no problem.

Please read carefully.

I never said playing hide and seek is or isn't fun. I said that according to your own statements about kit abilities, you have no reason to complain about playing hide and seek. According to you, the m16 is just as good as any sniper rifle. So, if some sniper is being pesky, shooting at you, you ought to be able to shoot back just as ably with your m16. According to you, you have no reason to go play hide and seek. So why do you complain about having to do it? What is there to locating them? If they can see, then you can see them. The draw distances are the same aren't they?

I don't see these problems with mines as being problems with the kit themselves. That's a problem with players having strategically poor visions. But you can't blame a player's poor strategic vision on the kits themselves.

**Mr.McFeelme** · 10-06-2008, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

Please read carefully.

I never said playing hide and seek is or isn't fun. I said that according to your own statements about kit abilities, you have no reason to complain about playing hide and seek. According to you, the m16 is just as good as any sniper rifle. So, if some sniper is being pesky, shooting at you, you ought to be able to shoot back just as ably with your m16. According to you, you have no reason to go play hide and seek. So why do you complain about having to do it? What is there to locating them? If they can see, then you can see them. The draw distances are the same aren't they?

That is correct, i (anyone) can return fire just as ably with an assault rifle as a sniper rifle. However I don't play the game using sniper tactics, so the rest of your point doesn't make sense.

**sordavie** · 10-06-2008, 11:01 PM

Shooting back at someone shooting at you constitutes sniper tactics? So, you never return fire? I find that hard to believe. Why do you think shooting back at a sniper constitutes sniper tactics? You refuse to shoot someone who's shooting at you, whom you admit you could ably shoot. Instead, you choose to sneak over there to kill them, even though you find that to be really boring. What is your complaint again?

**WhiskeySix** · 10-07-2008, 12:33 AM

sordavie's been hanging out in the sandbox too much lately...

**Ishotcha** · 10-07-2008, 02:19 AM

I don't get it. The not following orders part is bad, but why all the hate for snipers? I agree with Soradavie that it can be just as useful as any other kit. I have capped and defended more than a few flags as a sniper. The SVD/NTW/AMR/MSG rifles are also very effective against a dingo/dozer camping from afar. I think your real gripe is with the mentality of the player and not what kit they have. I disagree with Khareus, they are likely to be just as ineffective with another kit.

As far as opposing snipers at long distances, they fit in the same category as the apc behind the wall (from the other thread), or a tank. Any of them can kill you with one shot from long range. You have 3 choices:

A.Hide and ignore them, just don't give them a target.
B.Retreat and give up ground or the control point.
C.Formulate a plan and kill them.

Unfortunately, most people choose option d - Charge straight at them with no cover and no plan. This always results in needless ticket loss and completely mystifies me. When there are squads full of "TG" folks; Dirty with his AMR or Saitcho in a tank should not be allowed to take so many tickets. Each can easily be defeated with a little planning and teamwork. There are only 2 assets that can't be dealt with readily, a good jet pilot, and Mantis (he's part of the matrix, i'm not sure he can be killed).

If TG is really about teamwork and tactics, then it shouldn't matter whether you are facing a sniper or a tank. Come up with a strategy and pick your kit accordingly. Don't just dismiss a kit, a wall, or an asset because it is annoying. Use that T in "TG" and deal with it.

Class dismissed. Lecture over.

**Iamthefallen** · 10-07-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Ishotcha

I don't get it. The not following orders part is bad, but why all the hate for snipers?

Because most snipers are poor snipers.

I don't mind when someone grabs a sniper kit and effectively provides support for the squad - but most don't. For every Dirty*Berd going 30:0 there are 5 snipers going 2:8.

I really like the depth that players like Dirty add to the game, they're an element to be dealt with. It's the mass of snipers you see that don't support the team effort and aren't efficient that I have a problem with - on either side.

Honestly, I'd love to see the regular sniper kit gone and see more pickups added to the maps. Berezne or Kerch for instance would be far better IMHO if each team didn't inevitably end up with 6-8 snipers. They're not efficient, just annoying. 2 or 3 AMRs however would add a challenge.

**ParkBench** · 10-07-2008, 12:20 PM

Thanks Fallen... this is exactly what I was trying to express. fewer effective snipers, are way better / tolerable than 8 pubbie snipers looking for K/D ratios.

Saying No snipers when you SL, is great for your squad, but the guy who really wants to play sniper... will leave, form a 1 man squad and then watch from a hill / watertower as you get Cap'd out. Then the TS channel lights up with folks chatting about where he is hiding.

i think pick up kits is a great idea... though, then how many TKs do we see as folks FIGHT over the 'asset'. : )

and think about how you get killed by a sniper.
are you most often sniped when attacking a flag, and defending sniper takes you out as you cross a field / such?

are you most often sniped by a sniper clearing a path / causing havoc in support of an attacking force, as you try and defend a flag?

or are you most often killed by a sniper NOT doing either of these. He's off all alone, not contributing, and yet appears to be their own squad leader. (again, these people, tend not to populate the Forums here, so they aren't part of the discussion.)

thanks again Fallen.

**Mr.McFeelme** · 10-07-2008, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by sordavie

Shooting back at someone shooting at you constitutes sniper tactics? So, you never return fire? I find that hard to believe. Why do you think shooting back at a sniper constitutes sniper tactics? You refuse to shoot someone who's shooting at you, whom you admit you could ably shoot. Instead, you choose to sneak over there to kill them, even though you find that to be really boring. What is your complaint again?

I don't have a complaint, as I said several times I am expressing my opinion.

The sniper tactics i was talking about are finding a distant spot on some hillside or building, and watching a flag or two for people to shoot. If I chose to play that way, then yes, i could be just as effective with an assault rifle as with a sniper rifle. Do you understand what I am saying? I don't know how to make it more clear than that.

However, if I am attacking or defending a flag and I start taking sniper fire, I have to take cover and search for the source. This is the hide and seek playstyle I am talking about, and the type of playstyle I do not enjoy. If I did, I would be on one of those 'sniper only' servers.

And yes, i have started ignoring snipers in some situations. If a sniper is isolated and not particularly effective, letting them run out of ammo is probably better strategically than killing them and giving them a respawn with full ammo.

And I will repeat again, that is my opinion. I am not calling for any changes to the server rules, kits or map layouts. I guess I should be honored that my opinion means so much to you?

**tHa_KhAn** · 10-07-2008, 05:07 PM

Fallen nailed the real issue, IMHO. I hate poor/stupid snipers. There is nothing worse than seeing a guy camping by a back flag too far to defend the flag, but a long a well traveled lane. He gets his few kills, but does nothing to defend or lessen the loss of any flag. This is a team game and the team winning should be the priority, but many gamers(embodied by the lone sniper) prefer a public k/d ratio that makes them feel good to helping their team win. I think seeing a sniper be the last man standing doing nothing while your team gets capped out because he didn't bother to stop one guy that sneaked by and capped a back flag is where a lot of aggravation comes from.

**unKind-Bud** · 10-07-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

Fallen nailed the real issue, IMHO. I hate poor/stupid snipers. There is nothing worse than seeing a guy camping by a back flag too far to defend the flag, but a long a well traveled lane. He gets his few kills, but does nothing to defend or lessen the loss of any flag. This is a team game and the team winning should be the priority, but many gamers(embodied by the lone sniper) prefer a public k/d ratio that makes them feel good to helping their team win. I think seeing a sniper be the last man standing doing nothing while your team gets capped out because he didn't bother to stop one guy that sneaked by and capped a back flag is where a lot of aggravation comes from.

Bah

The perennial Knife-the-useless-Sniper-in-the-crotch during the final ticks of the game while everyone laments the past map's play is when I go take a leak. Without that useless dude, my seat would be squishy.

**Mr.McFeelme** · 10-07-2008, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by unKind-Bud

The perennial Knife-the-useless-Sniper-in-the-crotch during the final ticks of the game while everyone laments the past map's play is when I go take a leak. Without that useless dude, my seat would be squishy.

You must have a bladder of epic proportions if the minute and a half delay isn't enough.

**DrunkenPirate** · 10-07-2008, 07:27 PM

If I am running a squad where a sniper becomes necessary then someone like berd or saitcho who can actually hit targets is more then welcome to go sniper kit. but the other 90% of snipers who end up with a 1:4 kill/death ratio can go eat razor wire, pull it out their own arse and proceed to floss themself to death with it.

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