time to end the love-fest. - Page 2

ABRA · 09-05-2006, 04:05 PM

Guys I hate to be a party pooper but AFAIK, unless you are talking about the pickup kit, there is no AT class. It clearly says in the kit selection screen anti-personel and in the weapon selection HEAP. You're thinking this guy is using a state of the art three stage guided missile. He appears to be more modeled after the guys in Blackhawk Down tossing around RPGs at choppers. Those rockets(not missiles) can barely knock the tracks off a modern MBT(a combat report I read from early in the Iraq conflict saw only one Abrams immoblized, none destroyed after a serious ambush involving everything in the OPFOR arsenal). They simply cannot destroy such a tank irrespective of direction.

The pick up kit is different, an APC armour is different, but you seriously need to reconsider your expectations of an one-on-one RPG vs. MBT face off. That being said I have found tandem anti-armor rockets but still no hand-held guided missiles. They may not exist or I simply may not have found them. I wish those two were kit selection options rather than pickup kits. But those would be the weapons you are imagining when discussing ordinance with a high probability of destroying a MBT with one shot. Even tandem anti-armour rockets are often defeated by modern armor techniques in deflection angles, reactive armors, and chemically altering materials that absorb energy. I think the current PoE damage system reflects this more accurately than other games.

Many of you seem to be discussing this purely as a balance issue from a game design standpoint. I personally prefer and also expected at TG it would be considered not just as a balance issue but also as a realism issue that support real tactics as icky is discussing it.

ABRA · 09-05-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

what'd be cool is if hitting the tracks just immobilized the tank.

Funny thing is that Operation Flashpoint had this in like what 1999? And no one has done it since in an FPS since AFAIK.

BHack · 09-05-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABRA

Guys I hate to be a party pooper but AFAIK, unless you are talking about the pickup kit, there is no AT class. It clearly says in the kit selection screen anti-personel and in the weapon selection HEAP. You're thinking this guy is using a state of the art three stage guided missile. He appears to be more modeled after the guys in Blackhawk Down tossing around RPGs at choppers. Those rockets(not missiles) can barely knock the tracks off a modern MBT(a combat report I read from early in the Iraq conflict saw only one Abrams immoblized, none destroyed after a serious ambush involving everything in the OPFOR arsenal). They simply cannot destroy such a tank irrespective of direction.

The pick up kit is different, an APC armour is different, but you seriously need to reconsider your expectations of an one-on-one RPG vs. MBT face off. That being said I have found tandem anti-armor rockets but still no hand-held guided missiles. They may not exist or I simply may not have found them. I wish those two were kit selection options rather than pickup kits. But those would be the weapons you are imagining when discussing ordinance with a high probability of destroying a MBT with one shot. Even tandem anti-armour rockets are often defeated by modern armor techniques in deflection angles, reactive armors, and chemically altering materials that absorb energy. I think the current PoE damage system reflects this more accurately than other games.

Many of you seem to be discussing this purely as a balance issue from a game design standpoint. I personally prefer and also expected at TG it would be considered not just as a balance issue but also as a realism issue that support real tactics as icky is discussing it.

Correction: there is an AT class. The AT class automatically changes to Anti-Personal when your on an infantry only map. On normal maps with tanks it says Anti-tank.

RocketPunch · 09-05-2006, 04:17 PM

AT is perfect for defending CP. A good gun for CQC, AT + the ability to mine. A well and covertly placed mine is equally as good as any C4 against tanks.

ABRA · 09-05-2006, 04:35 PM

Ah, I see. Does it give you a different round besides HEAP when you select your weapon on those vehicular maps?

BaneII · 09-05-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

what'd be cool is if hitting the tracks just immobilized the tank.

Gotta wait for Quake Wars for that.

burble · 09-05-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABRA

Many of you seem to be discussing this purely as a balance issue from a game design standpoint. I personally prefer and also expected at TG it would be considered not just as a balance issue but also as a realism issue that support real tactics as icky is discussing it.

i try my best to keep my opinions balanced when it comes to realism vs balance/fun.

but, despite the presence of RPG's in the AT class (which, as stated, won't do squat to a modern tank), i think that the AT weapons should be similar in operation to, say, the US's AT4- a fire-and-forget one-shot tank killer.

it's not like i'm asking for javelins here....although it would be nice- oh, to decimate an entire armored column on my own. ;P

oh, and keep in mind that weapons like the AT4, while lethal to tanks, don't actually even blow them up. i've seen them fired- they enter the tank and make a sound like a firecracker in a tin can. that's about it. wouldn't wanna be in the tank, though. :P

BHack · 09-05-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABRA

Ah, I see. Does it give you a different round besides HEAP when you select your weapon on those vehicular maps?

Yep, it's a legitimate anti-tank round. Does not say HEAP. I believe it's the same model but I could be wrong.

Lekdevil.NL · 09-05-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABRA

Ah, I see. Does it give you a different round besides HEAP when you select your weapon on those vehicular maps?

Yes, it does. See the PoE manual. Basically, on vehicle maps, the Germans carry the Panzerfaust 3 dual-role AT/AP kit. On infantry maps, that changes to the Bunkerfaust anti-personnel kit. The pickup kit is the Panzerfaust 3T, which is an improved AT-only projectile. The Ukraine team has similar distinctions between the various kits.

xTYBALTx · 09-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Nifty. Love the attention to detail.

Steel_Penguin · 09-05-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABRA

Funny thing is that Operation Flashpoint had this in like what 1999? And no one has done it since in an FPS since AFAIK.

RO does it

thebleakaffinity · 09-05-2006, 07:38 PM

The real problem is that NO ONE PLAYS MEDIC ANYMORE. And those that do don't bother reviving.

I know it's fun to shoot rockets and use rifles and tanks and stuff, but teamwork doesn't have to go out the window :/

**WhiskeySix** · 09-05-2006, 07:41 PM

hehe... yeah, I noticed that last night - there were literraly 2 medics on the whole team

RocketPunch · 09-05-2006, 07:47 PM

I play medic all the time, unless I am asked to play a specific kit or there is already 2 medic in my squad.

ABRA · 09-05-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lekdevil.NL

Yes, it does. See the PoE manual. Basically, on vehicle maps, the Germans carry the Panzerfaust 3 dual-role AT/AP kit. On infantry maps, that changes to the Bunkerfaust anti-personnel kit. The pickup kit is the Panzerfaust 3T, which is an improved AT-only projectile. The Ukraine team has similar distinctions between the various kits.

This is what confused me. When I read the manual it specified the Thermobaric munitions as pickup kits. Are you saying that on infantry only maps, those thermobaric weapons are defualt? Or are they still their own seperate pick-up kit? In which case is this "Bunkerfaust" just the standard AP/AT combo kit(RPG-7V/Panzerfaust), just without the AT component and possibly am greater splash AP component? This is what's confusing me here.

09-05-2006, 04:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: time to end the love-fest. Guys I hate to be a party pooper but AFAIK, unless you are talking about the pickup kit, there is no AT class. It clearly says in the kit selection screen anti-personel and in the weapon selection HEAP. You're thinking this guy is using a state of the art three stage guided missile. He appears to be more modeled after the guys in Blackhawk Down tossing around RPGs at choppers. Those rockets(not missiles) can barely knock the tracks off a modern MBT(a combat report I read from early in the Iraq conflict saw only one Abrams immoblized, none destroyed after a serious ambush involving everything in the OPFOR arsenal). They simply cannot destroy such a tank irrespective of direction. The pick up kit is different, an APC armour is different, but you seriously need to reconsider your expectations of an one-on-one RPG vs. MBT face off. That being said I have found tandem anti-armor rockets but still no hand-held guided missiles. They may not exist or I simply may not have found them. I wish those two were kit selection options rather than pickup kits. But those would be the weapons you are imagining when discussing ordinance with a high probability of destroying a MBT with one shot. Even tandem anti-armour rockets are often defeated by modern armor techniques in deflection angles, reactive armors, and chemically altering materials that absorb energy. I think the current PoE damage system reflects this more accurately than other games. Many of you seem to be discussing this purely as a balance issue from a game design standpoint. I personally prefer and also expected at TG it would be considered not just as a balance issue but also as a realism issue that support real tactics as icky is discussing it. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

09-05-2006, 04:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
RocketPunch Join Date: May 2006 Location: NY, USA Posts: 1,119	Re: time to end the love-fest. AT is perfect for defending CP. A good gun for CQC, AT + the ability to mine. A well and covertly placed mine is equally as good as any C4 against tanks. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast!

09-05-2006, 04:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
ABRA Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NORTH ATLANTIC (offline) Posts: 584	Re: time to end the love-fest. Ah, I see. Does it give you a different round besides HEAP when you select your weapon on those vehicular maps? __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA Friend me!

09-05-2006, 06:30 PM	#25 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,762	Re: time to end the love-fest. Nifty. Love the attention to detail. __________________ Current good song: Justice - Stress "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

09-05-2006, 07:38 PM	#27 (permalink)
thebleakaffinity Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Boulder, Colorado Age: 20 Posts: 1,133	Re: time to end the love-fest. The real problem is that NO ONE PLAYS MEDIC ANYMORE. And those that do don't bother reviving. I know it's fun to shoot rockets and use rifles and tanks and stuff, but teamwork doesn't have to go out the window :/

09-05-2006, 07:41 PM	#28 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 7,996	Re: time to end the love-fest. hehe... yeah, I noticed that last night - there were literraly 2 medics on the whole team __________________

09-05-2006, 07:47 PM	#29 (permalink)
RocketPunch Join Date: May 2006 Location: NY, USA Posts: 1,119	Re: time to end the love-fest. I play medic all the time, unless I am asked to play a specific kit or there is already 2 medic in my squad. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast!

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