Lucky Shot

I understand why POE took out the artillery, UAV and Scanner. It forces things down to the squad level in terms of performing and forces a CO to direct their troops, not play with the toys. This requires a greater reliance on teamwork to accomplish your goals. The difference is that you can't leave those assets sitting there on BF2, or even BF2142 or you will get demolished, forcing a need for a CO. Right now, you only CO if you want to, almost if there isn't a big need for it.

I played Sambir as CO tonight for the germans and felt pretty powerless to impact the battlefield. I would drop my little support crate from time to time for an advancing column only to watch them back off of it and give it to the enemy forces, I saw SL's who couldn't stay alive near the flag, and it seemed like people wouldn't see the enemies I would spot. I gave plenty of orders, the guys either wouldn't make it, or they took too long to get there and allowed the enemy to prepare. I know if I had the tools of old, I could have helped my guys. As it was, I probably would have been better off as a 1 man squad snagging flags in a jeep.

I say all that to say this. The reason that you have a CO consistently in BF2 and 2142 is that you can't afford not to. I don't feel it's the case in POE which is a shame. Do you agree, disagree?

Lucky Shot

Santa

Depends on how much coordination is needed for a team, since thats the only real tool you have. If you are on a team with a bunch of squads doing nothing and all rushing the same flags together, a CO can be mandatory for any chance of winning. Ive stepped up several times in cases like these and have either at least made it a close game or have won it.

If you are on a team with squads that defend enough and are spread out enough, its generally not crucial like you said. Many times ive considered stepping up to CO, but then i realize id change nothing about what the squads are already doing.

freekyE

I know it has been covered a million times, but the ability has recently been proven to me without a shadow of a doubt that if squad leaders can talk to each other the war becomes easier. This kindof nearly eliminates the need for a CO.

A few nights ago Lucky was running a squad and Moregooder was running another on the same team. Since all us 5th guys were in the same TS channel Lucky used this to an advantage by getting from and sending support to Gooder. This allowed us to hold a hotly contested flag the entire round.

Maybe even if only a few squad leaders use it a TS channel for each team would be usefull.......at the very least, during the upcoming scrim?

WhiskeySix

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DrunkenPirate

We're currently thinking about adding extra options for the commander role in poe2

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Tempus

Something that I wish was available in the BF2 series is for all squadleaders to be able to see the orders of OTHER squadleaders. This way, when there is no commander, they can see what other SLs are working on and plan appropriately. I wonder if that is possible in PoE2.

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-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.

FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

derdmeh

i think that's a great idea.

imagine SL orders including defensive lines and directions - the whole map could be divied up pretty quickly, and changes could be taken in at a glance.

basically the idea is for SL's to communicate with each other graphically.

that's cool, and I think it would work well.

Gman

TOC has thought this many times. All to often we will see 3 squads protecting the same flag when one squad could hold it. Some fault is with the SL as he should be looking at this. The is the option to text the other squads is still there. I see WhiskeySix report "squad # defending Graveyard" all the time. A SL that is on the ball would watch for this kind of thing.

I am sure that you get more SL to SL cooperation in your matches. I just dont think you will be able to force Pubbers to fall into this habit. I know that TOC guys try to keep an eye on the bigger picture even if we seem to be a little loose on tactics. A way of seeing what others are trying to do would be better than watching the radar to see where all the blue dots are going.

Lucky Shot

There are some SL's who are really good at finding the gap in a defense and holding the line. Bane, Gunrack, Mantis are among the best to team up with as they flow to the opening. There are tons of guys who parade behind a TG squad during an attack or defense of a flag. Either it's a couple mini-squads not strong enough on their own, or they lost their flag and spawned at yours. Either way, after a couple minutes of holding a flag, you start to notice tons of guys in blue at your flag that are now co-defending your flag. So you strike out to find a new flag that gives you some elbow room. After you take it, wham, same thing. Blueberry patch all over your flag.

I guess some of that will change as other squads gain confidence or the other SL's continue to learn their role. In the meantime, I can't wait for the upcoming CO changes that the POE Developers discussion will one day bring.

Lucky Shot

MoreGooder

/rant on

I've noticed some players hopping into the CO roll just so that they can drop a supply crate, then hop back out again. While this is not necessarily a bad tactic, it does seem to be a waste of the CO programming in the code. Why not just let SL's drop supply crates at their position? In fact, all of the current functions of the commander (arty smoke and supply crates) could be provided to the SL's with no dire consequence. That way, the only real reason to have CO is to actually lead the battle. Furthermore, I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen CO's flying jets or driving around in tanks. We all know that there's no way they can perform their assigned roll while doing anything other than hiding in a bush using the commander screen. Meanwhile, someone who might want to actually command is barred from doing so because the position is filled by the irresponsible player. I've seen admin's do a good job of booting non-commanding commanders. Why not make it a part of the game to do so? If the commander screen isn't accessed in x seconds then the CO loses his commander roll.

With regards to squads always following other squads. It's somewhat flattering, but it can also be very frustrating. Peopel of the 5th JTF tend to cap a flag and then defend it. Why do other squads feel compelled to constantly go on the offensive? It is even more baffling when our team is bleeding the other side, in which case the only logical thing to do is to defend, defend, defend.

/rant off

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Gman

Sigh ... I am one who on occasion will go CO just to get a supply crate. This almost always is when I am sitting in the arty piece. I cannot resupply it from the backpack. I have no desire to command at all, nor do I argue much with those who have no clue. I try to follow orders when ever possible. Even dumb ones. This is part of what makes the game more realistic.

It might be a nice feature if a SL could put a supply request in a que, and be able to receive supplies in their turn. With a limit of 1 crate per 5 minuets or so. We dont want a SL to tie up assets because of greed.

corporate

I agree that it's all about SL communication. If they can coordinate and back each other up, then the CO is not needed nearly as much.

The CO can cause problems anyway. A few nights ago someone new to the server grabbed the CO role. He de-railed our squad's efforts by sending us all over. After we started losing tickets, he left.

As long as they don't put the UAV or radar back in, I'll be fine.

Rick_the_new_guy

This is a great idea.

1. If no Co is around, gameplay is not limited. Boom, that alone gets the thumbs up. IMO, this does not make the CO weaker either.

IMO, the HUD really is the teams biggest asset.
In real life, the CO spends a lot of their time post initial deployment making sure everyone knows were everybody is at and not killing each other.
When you have four grunt squads, two jets on call, and a couple of gunships, arty on station, this is a big chanllege.
Actually in real life, the platoon leader has staff officers from the Company and Brigrade helping him out also and telling him/her stuff.

Anyway, my point is the HUD allows the pace of action to be speeded up because the team is getting instant info on each others position, something that is taken for granted by the players. Truly amazing stuff IMO.

In RL, the CO is going to tell, other squad leaders what other SL are doing most of the time. Espically if it is in their Area of Operations. Now, with these small maps, everyone is in the same area of operations. Therefore, the CO is going to tell every SL what the other one is doing.

Why not just have this show up (on the HUD) for all the squad leaders to see instantly all the time? Hell fire, if lone wolfes who are not with the team show up on the H.U.D. (A.W.O.L.) why wouldn't SL orders be available to all those in a commonding position? I mean, come on. Yet another example of the frustration I have with this game.
Granted this is not as bad as having a chopper that seats 6 instead of 7, but it is up there.

Here is my HUD set up with dots and order icons.

CO= sees all SLs and their current orders. (does not see squad members or lone wolves)
Prevents micromanegment of the CO on individual Squad members. ("uhh, have that dot beside you move to the west more, please." "Yeah, I need that bridge defended better.") Get that stuff out of here. You told the SL to defend the bridge, let them do it already, they know what is going on at the ground level.

SL= Sees their CO and fellow SLs and their current orders. Furthermore, they see their squad members on the map. (They do not see other squad members on the HUD, communication is increased, game is slowed down.) Note: A SL can see up to 14 dots on the screen. 1 CO. 8 Other SLs. 5 members in their squad.

SM= Sees their SL and fellow squad members and their current orders. (They basically see only five other dots on the HUD, at the most. This will allow them to focus on their goal and further depend on their SL to make sure they do not get wasted.)

teen wolf= Sees nothing! Nothing!


This set up would really slow things down, particularly on the maps with Air support. No frindly dots to see if you and another are the only one in the jet squad. Things would be slowed down a lot on infantry maps also.

Some may believe this is too slow. I mean you would atcually need to communicate to get a air strike going.

Anyway. your idea is a great one that would improve gameplay and not slow the game down. why mods have not done this so far is sad.

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(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html

Rick_the_new_guy

Just because someone sucks as a CO does not mean the role it performs for the team/platoon sucks.



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Differnt topic and has nothing to do with the quote.

The funny thing is. The game is set-up to create a military atmosphere, but yet the gameplay is so differnet from the military set-up and reallife, things are not adding up right.

Granted PoE2 does a better job than vanilla when creating a military atmoshere.

I found it facinating when I watched the expo scrim of BF2C vs another unit, and the commentators reported one side went "pub" and did not form into squads.

After playing on FCW for a while, this is actually functional and is not laughable, and can actaully get the job done.

Basically, when I saw this on the video, I knew it was time for me to really consider retireing from BF2. I want a game that requires military style of SOPs to be functional and always important in getting the job done everytime, while still having a lot of fun and action with others.

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(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html

John CANavar

ROFL !

Excellent HUD setup Rick... That's the type of information flow I am trying to achieve with new TS Radio Comm setup in ArmA.

Too much information is as bad as too little. Just the right amount for the right person (CO, SL, FTL, FTM) is what we need.