Re: Invincible players who kill with 1 shot

**MoreGooder** · 01-20-2007, 10:22 AM

For the last few days, I've been taking note of how many times I'm 1-shot killed. It's approximatel once out of every 12 deaths.

Still, has much as I play and as often, I haven't scored a single 1-shot for myself.

If you've noticed how I play, you know that I don't stay in one place for long at all. I'm constantly in motion. I hate getting pegged by a sniper, and that probably keeps my one shot deaths alot lower than it would be if I was hiding behind a tree hoping to be invisible from all angles from all other players. One-on-one, yes, no doubt, use cover. For a major attack by multiple forces sweeping in, perhaps hiding isn't as much of an option. Eventually, you'll be found. Moving targets are harder to hit, especially if they are moving laterally across the field. Ok, call me mr. obvious.

All of the above should demonstrate that I'm not positioning myself to be a on-shot victom. In fact, one goal I have every time I play is to have a positive kill/death ratio, and I strive for a 2:1 minimum. This means I constantly adjust my personal tactic to meld with the SL's goal and to keep my ratio as high as possible. Sometimes that means hiding. Sometimes that means aggressively pursuing, flanking or smoke-bombing.

I've noticed more one-shot deaths on Spies than on any other map, hands down. Of course, far more when I play German than when I play Ukrain. Interestingly, though, you would think that the ratio of one shot deaths to mult-shot deaths would be the same, but it's not. It's always more one-shot deaths to multi-shot deaths than on any other map. I seldom stop moving in Spies, even to reload. Lack of cover and uniform color can't be the reason. There has to be something else. Statistically, it just doesn't add up for me.

I don't know enough about the game engine to make reasonable assumptions, but I suppose server lag could be a part of it. Spies isn't laggy for me at all, 60fps constant. But, server lag could still be the issue. I notice sometimes I get the final kill-shot inflicted on me after I've already ducked behind a rock or wall. That's server lag. I wonder how many times multiple bullets have been fired at me but only the last one registers at my end, thus appearing as a one-shot death. Is this possible?

Reminder, my ping runs in the upper 20's to low 30's for the POE2 server.

**MoreGooder** · 01-20-2007, 10:35 AM

I will be making note of the ratio of one-shot to multi-shot deaths vs server population. Perhaps I never get one-shot killed on 16 player, but often do on 64 player. That's a good possibility.

**WhiskeySix** · 01-20-2007, 11:12 AM

Depends a lot who you're playing against too

**BigGaayAl** · 01-20-2007, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Knights_Roundtable

Something strange happened to me twice on the "Fallen" map. Both my friend and I were very irritated late Sat. night and Monday nights when we kept getting killed with one shot. It was not the shotgun (which I thought was the only hand held gun that could kill you with 1 shot besides maybe the sniper rifle), but another weapon. It happend over and over again and had nothing to do with lag. My friend plays alot of war games, and is big on Dessert Storm, but this experience got him so annoyed that he quit playing, and if it happens too many times he will quit playing POE. He could also bring several people with him to the POE servers, and is very skilled on war games (its not like he does not know what he is doing). It seemed to be much worse on "Fallen," so we got to thinking that either their are hidden weapons on the map that are unrealistically better than what most of us have (I really don't have the time to try and find these hidden weapons and really don't want to - I'd rather everyone play on equal grounds), or as my friend said, we have some "cheaters" on our servers. I would hope that no one is cheating and I even hate to say that word...hopefully that is not the case and its the hidden weapon thing. My friend also said that he wasted a whole clip of ammo on an enemy and it did not kill him, and yet my friend and I get killed in 1 shot over and over again? It really takes the fun out of the game. The main thing I know is that if this keeps occurring (whatever the reason), then this is going to keep several people from coming to play on the this server, which is exactly what we don't want to happen. Any ideas?

I'm sorry to say, to all that suspect people of cheating on poe2 on tg, 99% of the time YOU ARE WRONG. There is a common psychological fallacy that creates this illusion.

Easily explained, every time you one-shot kill someone, you probably don't know you got him in one shot, you probably attribute it to luck, bottom line:
You're memory of you're own on-shot kills is flawed.

Now when someone kills YOU with one shot, you always take notice and remember. The whole thing is in fact a flaw of our memory. In this case we forget what we like (one-shot kills) and disproportionally remember what we dislike (one-shot deaths).

In fact this effect is the opposite of what someone in love does;you remember only positive aspects of your lover, you disregard the fact that he or she is dumb, ugly and has only one leg.

Bottom line is I've known and banned many cheaters on MOHAA, and on TG bf2/poe2, I do NOT have data to support seeing ONE cheater in all this time.

This is logical if you examine the cheater:
-He plays alone, never with his friends
-He does not do any teamwork that doesn't bring him kills
-He is not in a squad or he is in a one-man squad
-He is kicked by Santa for being in a one man squad if he wasn't already kicked for not being in a squad.

Now I know there have undoubtedly been cheater on TG, but they don't stay, and the occurrence is way too low to justify some of the draconian measures many people propose. One of these measures is the rediculous screenshot stuff. I say keep you're hands off my freaking upload limit, I don't want to be automatically uploading hi-res screenshots.

I hope my post will help the people that have fallen for this psychological fallacy, as I too have sometimes, so they can let go of it and have fun and respect for a good shot.

TG Santa and TG Mantis are cheaters though, no doubt about that

.

**ANGELofDEATH** · 01-22-2007, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by MoreGooder

Interesting. I NEVER get a single shot kill with the medic gun, and I play medic almost exclusively.

I share the OP's frustration. Time and time again, the same person kills me from a rediculous distance with a single shot. There has to be more to this.

My ping is always very low in the POE2 server. I wonder if my low ping is penalized by adding artificial lag to even out the balance, except that it's not as even as intended. If someone with a ping of 250 can single shot me with a ping of 20, there's something else going on.

hmmm, that is odd, because I play medic ALWAYS.. and use single fire most of the time. and get one shots alot.. The only time I go auto is when attacking a flag. I get caught in CQC alot in single fire, leaving me clicking as fast as possible. Yet, I get away with more than my share of headshots.

To the thread.. Practice practice practice.. a little patience and alot of luck

**MoreGooder** · 01-28-2007, 05:06 PM

Preliminary results:
Lately, the POE2 server has not been entirely full while I play. I don't have enough data yet, but it appears that there may be a trend with number of players to % of single shot deaths. This would support the notion that this is a server lag issue.

More data will reinforce my initial results.

**Sumluv59** · 01-30-2007, 11:50 AM

There is definitely a lag issue on my end. Some maps I’m extremely accurate and get easy one shot kills and on other maps, using the same techniques, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn. I get frustrated but then I realize I must adjust my game accordingly. Early in the game it’s obviously easy for me to determine. Once I realize I’m having lag issues I change my tactics. I stay closer to my squad and Q-spot more. My kill/death ratio sucks but as long as my team wins I really don’t care.

You’re only as good as your connection will let you be. Realizing you are having lag issues and dealing with it is your only way to go. You can still help your team win.

**BigGaayAl** · 01-30-2007, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sumluv59

There is definitely a lag issue on my end. Some maps I’m extremely accurate and get easy one shot kills and on other maps, using the same techniques, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn. I get frustrated but then I realize I must adjust my game accordingly. Early in the game it’s obviously easy for me to determine. Once I realize I’m having lag issues I change my tactics. I stay closer to my squad and Q-spot more. My kill/death ratio sucks but as long as my team wins I really don’t care.

You’re only as good as your connection will let you be. Realizing you are having lag issues and dealing with it is your only way to go. You can still help your team win.

As a european player I know what you are talking about. My accuracy is always good on stationary targets or targets running towards me/ away from me.
I am however completely unable to hit an enemy that runs perpendicular to me (===> spray'n pray).

I'd like to play the twitch kings of TG on a european server one day, just to see how much it does.

Ah and moregooder I'm not sure the correlation you observe between "%of one hit kills" can be causally linked to lag on the basis of your data. What is your reasoning behind this exactly?

**FBmantis** · 01-30-2007, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

My accuracy is always good on stationary targets or targets running towards me/ away from me.
I am however completely unable to hit an enemy that runs perpendicular to me (===> spray'n pray).

Thats normal for everyone no matter what their ping. I won't even take shots at someone thats running perpendicular to my position. Its a waste of time. I'll just wait until they change direction to give away my position or maybe I'll run to a different spot so I'm now in line to shoot them in the back as they are still running.

**icky** · 01-30-2007, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by MoreGooder

For the last few days, I've been taking note of how many times I'm 1-shot killed. It's approximatel once out of every 12 deaths.

Still, has much as I play and as often, I haven't scored a single 1-shot for myself.

I don't understand how you can possibly track such information.

1. Things that appear to be your death in one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or multiple hits in such a short period that you don't notice them.

2. Things that appear to be you getting a kill with one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or one finishing shot on a guy who was almost dead already.

**tHa_KhAn** · 01-30-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by icky

I don't understand how you can possibly track such information.

1. Things that appear to be your death in one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or multiple hits in such a short period that you don't notice them.

2. Things that appear to be you getting a kill with one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or one finishing shot on a guy who was almost dead already.

X2 to Icky on this one. I've noticed that sometimes I score 1 shot kills on enemies for unknown reasons. I don't know whether they were injured or not, but there are times I can pretty much say they were full health based on the situation and they still drop. I think the reverse could be true. Just issues with the games interpretations of what happened.

I put many hours into vanilla before arriving at POE and TG. Outside of the many vehicle drop, the only cheat I know I saw was someone with an Auto M95. He was promptly voted off. Yes, I just said that it was so obvious the server actually united and voted him off. In the couple Hundred hours I logged on many different pub server, I'm saying I only can be 100% sure of 1 cheat. Many exploiters and other nefarious actions, but only 1 cheater that was using some kind of the augmentation to the game.

The reason I stopped playing America's Army was not because of the cheaters, but because of the people accusing others of cheating. I personally got sick of every round turning into each team debating the legitimacy of 1 or 2 players.

**BigGaayAl** · 01-30-2007, 05:48 PM

I have seen cheaters in game and videos of cheaters. There is wallhack stuff and such around, and a dead give away is when you see 50 supply boxes around.

**Dick Blonov** · 01-30-2007, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by icky

I don't understand how you can possibly track such information.

1. Things that appear to be your death in one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or multiple hits in such a short period that you don't notice them.

2. Things that appear to be you getting a kill with one shot can be multiple simultaneous shots, or one finishing shot on a guy who was almost dead already.

I did a test some time ago with EgoatBoy:

Both face to face, handguns out.

3, 2, 1, we both shoot.

When I died, sometimes I would see the death message, but the animation was missing; ie no muzzle flash, no gunshot sound. This might be due to the way the client prioritizes incoming packets; it is possible that some of the animation information is treated with a lower priority, or just ignored when you are dead (or when your client is going through the animation on your side;ie your muzzle flash/sound/recoil/spent round ejection, etc).

DB

**MoreGooder** · 01-30-2007, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Ah and moregooder I'm not sure the correlation you observe between "%of one hit kills" can be causally linked to lag on the basis of your data. What is your reasoning behind this exactly?

My thought is not lag in the sense of connection lag. My ping is excellent. The type of lag I am referring to is within the server itself. Imagine the CPU at 100% utilization. Could it keep up with all of the packets and figuring out who shot who, when, and how accurately regardlesss of the number of players? My guess is that when the server is full, the CPU is heavily taxed to make such calculations in what we would experience as "real time". So, by the time the server figures out that I'm already dead and buried, I'm still running around the corner dodging bullets. AH.... but, according the server I'm already dead, so *wham*....one shot death.

**Knights_Roundtable** · 01-31-2007, 11:21 PM

Big...

I know you were kidding about Mantis cheating, but I've got to give some props to the guy...he alone killed my whole squad of 6 the other night and shot my squdleader while he was driving a jeep! Anyway...I have not seen as many 1 shot kills anymore...I do see some...but not as many as when I made my initial post about this topic. I think that I even got one myself the other night...and the more I play the more I realize what a difference shooting short bursts, aiming for the head, and using 1 shot mode while concealed can make in POE. Concealment seems such a big deal that I took too much for granted in the past. Anyway...it makes for a good discussion topic but I don't wonder if people are cheating anymore after seeing how Mantis, Santa, and Luckyshot do what they do (although if I am not in a squad with them then I'm usually gettng killed by one of them!). Although, I will tell you that the anti-material gun does some amazing things to me and seems head and shoulders above the rest! But then again...maybe that's because I'm getting killled by it all the time...

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