Re: TG Squads and Team Balance

**Lucky Shot** · 01-29-2007, 02:10 AM

The maps before flipflopped over who won. Typically the margins were high, 100-300 points all night.

Lucky Shot

**tHa_KhAn** · 01-29-2007, 10:17 AM

I think the real problem is the type of players. Some nights there are plenty of non TG players interested in teamwork and good tactics. Other nights, you get the "I like Vanilla better, but still have to play this mod" group. No matter what squad you join you can't find any teamwork or orders even. I understand the proper procedure is the report a non leading SL, but if the 4 or 5 squads with room are non-leading SL's you'd be kicking all night, then kicking people who didn't mean to be SL, but ended up in the slot after the kick making it worse.

I've also seen nights where the TG heavy team was on the losing side. Rare, but it does happen. I think on most evenings the inbalance comes from the non TG regulars to the server. There can be some quite formidable non TG squads out there. When you get 2 or 3 of those on the same side as 1 or 2 TG squads, there's not much going to be done for balance unless the other side is equally as stacked.

**icky** · 01-29-2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by thebleakaffinity

The maps I was referring to were Rivne and Berezne, I can't really say one way or another how things went on the maps before.

I think this was more of a random event that can't be prevented. The German side on Rivne was already starting to get a little rag-tag, then Beatnik had to leave, and I had to leave a little later. After that, I think there was only one organized squad.

**jb4** · 01-29-2007, 01:53 PM

Thanks to all of you for trying this. When I first started playing here a few months ago my first thought was "How can some of these guys get all of those kills and hardly any deaths?" When I had a chance to be in some of the TG squads it was instantly clear, teamwork and following directions. Wow, what a concept. It is so refreshing from the chaos of non-team play that my gaming hours have increased since I found your server. Sofar, thanks to Bleak, Mantis, Luckyshot and Sawviper. I have had a chance to be in your squads the over the last week and have learned a lot. Thanks for sharing the TG style of play.

**Gman** · 01-29-2007, 06:44 PM

Maybe, instead of side switching, just try to maintain an even balance of "talented" folks on both sides. If the 5th is on one side and the 7th is on the other, would they cancel each other? (I only choose 2 in house squads, I am in no way implying there is talent there)

If the full squads cannot balance each other, then have one squad breakup and scatter into the other squads. This could influence all the squads on that side.

You might find that communication via the teamspeak or ventrillo will also play a part in domination. One side with 2 squads or even several people scattered in various squads all connected to TS or vent, can do more than the other team who might (in some rare occurrences) have a commander. Comms on the field have a major effect even on a pubbie server.

**Nitecrawler** · 01-30-2007, 02:14 AM

I do find that I gravitate toward squads that have at least 1 TG player on it as I can be assured of great team play, so I can definitely see Santa's reasoning of breaking up the squads. I do prefer playing with all TG squads, but with Santa's suggestion, there are more team oriented squads to choose from instead of only finding two squads working as a group and the rest running around aimlessly and dead silent.

**jmaker** · 01-30-2007, 09:20 PM

I'm sorry but I just hopped on the server and was on the German side. There were about 4 or 5 TG guys on the opposite team. TG players that just joined the server were put on the German side and then switched over just because they see a few more TG'ers on the other side. I tried asking in text chat why everyone kept switching over to the UKR side and got no response. The German side got absolutely annihilated. This was on Fallen by the way.

I'm not one to complain too much when I'm getting dominated when it's relatively equal, but c'mon, maybe this message is not getting through to some people. Hopefully the teams will get balanced out later on in the night. But that was just ridiculous. My only gripe was why people were switching sides.

**MoreGooder** · 01-30-2007, 09:23 PM

I think naming squad's with appropriate names such as Learn TG or Teamwork can help out too. By doing so, you are assured to get players that want to learn or contribute to a squad rather than simply getting around the squadless auto-kick. Perhaps the goal should be to have as many Teamwork and/or Learn TG squads as we possibly can, each one having a TG regular SL. You could have Learn TG S1, Learn TG S2, Teamwork1, Teamwork 2.... and so on. Perhaps we encourage new players in the Learn TG squads, and intermediate players in the the Teamwork squads.

Perhaps too much to manage?

**Snail88** · 01-31-2007, 12:35 AM

i dont know but when i left ukr got their butts handed to them like 4 maps in a row....i guess it was payback time

**sordavie** · 01-31-2007, 01:32 AM

Ah, so if one side is stacked for half the night, the only way to balance things out is to stack the other side to the rest of the night.

**Snail88** · 01-31-2007, 09:21 AM

hey, im just sayin

**ThePenguineer** · 01-31-2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by MoreGooder

I think naming squad's with appropriate names such as Learn TG or Teamwork can help out too. By doing so, you are assured to get players that want to learn or contribute to a squad rather than simply getting around the squadless auto-kick.

Coincidently, we started having similar problems over on the 2142 server. Since the squads were emptied on the team switch, all the TG people would wait for the one reluctant SL to start a squad (See Exhibit A: Fehmart's "Oh Fine!" Squads). To try to attenuate the problem, I started trying to create "TG3MAX" squads, hoping the other guys would get the message to spread the TG love out some more.

It was to no avail.

I guess it comes down to reminding everyone of their Pubby roots and that if it hadn't been for that one round where they managed to get into Beatnik, Silver, or Lucky's squad, they'd still be lost in the abyss that is Pubby-land. That time might be longer ago for some than other, but I'm sure you remember the piercing pain of that arid desert.

This server is our server - if you want it to play the way its supposed to play, do what is necessary for that to happen yourself, not depend on the admins to press the magical randomize button (which, honestly, doesn't help things if all the TG keep bunching up). Plus, Jepzilla hates it when you tell him to do that.

**Greasy Mullet** · 01-31-2007, 05:24 PM

Before the squad hop fix, I used to look for a squad while I was dead. It was the best time since you are sitting there with nothing to do. So if I was a SL then I would invite a ton of people if I had room or if I needed a new squad I would find one.

Now that you have to do it while alive it makes it that much more difficult. While I was against the squad hop, I had hoped you could still select a squad while dead but not be able to spawn on it until the next time.

However TG has done a great job with the time to start a map. Not only does this allow time for people to load the map with slower computers but it is a great time to find the squad you want to be a part of and organize.

**Braidedheadman** · 02-04-2007, 07:12 AM

I'd like to interject here if I may.

First, I recognize more and more TG names here on the forums from the guys that I've spent time in squads with and it's been a blast running with you all.

However, while I recognize the needs of any clan to form up with their mates in order to get group practice time in, there is one thing that has concerned me of late. From time to time, I will join the server and begin looking for available squads to join. My preference immediately goes to any squad that has TG members in it for I know that it will have a higher standard of teamwork than squads populated by random pubbies.

My concern arises where I encounter TG squads that are locked but have room to spare. When I first started playing on the TG server regularly, it kind of made me feel unwelcome in some respects, being at that time just another nameless, random pubby myself.

Again, I recognize the value of in-house practice time and am also aware that I am in no position to make any kind of recommendations here. My hope is that by sharing this with you fellas, in addition to what has already been discussed here, some consideration might be given toward being a little less exclusive as a club and be a little more inviting in order that pubbies may more fully participate in one of, if not indeed the finest gaming theatre I have ever encountered in BF2.

**Lucky Shot** · 02-04-2007, 07:32 AM

I am one of the guys who locks his squad so let me explain the dynamics. I play with a great deal of new people in my squad and it tends to fill fairly quickly any time I start a squad. I will lock my squads due to Crashes to Desktop, Team Switches to squad members or through attrition to create room for an In House Squadmate. I generally do not remove members from my squad and lock it to prevent needing to remove someone.

In order to try and have it both ways (being able to play with the 5th and help promote TG gameplay) the 5th has designated that on Mondays and Thursdays we will run TG Learn squads to help teach the values of TG.

Regardless, most nights my squad has new people in it and it's rewarding to see new people grow at TG.

Lucky Shot

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