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04-13-2007, 06:56 PM #1
Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Part 2 of where we are going wrong in vehicle map land. I wrote this quickly...I probably missed something obvious.
Complaints about armor and air...its something I see all the time these days. Yet ya know what...I usually see it from a squad thats trying to hold a flag far into enemy territory or completely unconnected to other friendly flags. Its silly.
Everyone needs to get in their heads a few basic things with regards to vehicle maps:
1. Air is annoying if you let it be. Too many times I have seen complaints about choppers yet I'll see the mobile AA sitting at the main and no one ever bothers to pick up a stinger/SA7. Do the pickup kits work very well?...not really...do they annoy the air and scare them off?...yes.
2. Flags get harder to hold the farther you are from your UCB. Your UCB acts as your reinforcement area...it gives you armor and AA to bring up. Outside of Carpathian Mountains there is not a vehicle map that does not follow this logic.
3. Flags closest to your UCB need to be held to allow armor/AA to move up. Highly experienced squads like to go for backflags...why? Well outside the challenge factor of holding it, its also a case where you can tie up their armor flow and keep them from moving out to other parts of the map. A map like Dnister is a good example. If you can lock half the enemy armor out from getting past the Statue or Radar Station then the rest of the map becomes that much easier for the rest of your team.
4. Your protection from enemy choppers comes from your own airforce. Duh?...yes. But do we understand that its much easier to get friendly chopper support away from the enemies UCB. A map that exemplifies this is Highway to Hell. Friendly choppers are not likely to support you around backflags...not because they don't want to but because its very hard to get there. Even if you do there will be enemy choppers and AA to keep you busy. When you go for a backflag on this map you better be prepared to get hammered. You will get minimal armor or air support. Thats the beauty of this map but half the server doesn't seem to get that...you have to play it frontlines mode style or you'll have a rough time.
5. Do not bring infantry to a tank fight. These are not infantry maps. You must change your tactics and utilize the assets you have at your disposal. Squads should have lots of variety in their kit layouts and armor should be in play and protected. AT's are obvious...less obvious are an ENG to keep armor up...a sniper for lookout and surpression of infantry...support for ammo! and a medic to keep everyone going. When all those kits are working together with armor is when you'll find some of your favorite moments playing this game. On the other hand...when your bring 3 assaults, 1 AT and 2 medics to a tank fight you'll get slaughterd. Plan your kit assignments ahead of time based on where your going and change your tactics to take advantage of the combined arms nature of the map.
Moral of Story:
- Hold Backflags. This is a job that needs to be done. You will see action and your team will suffer if no one takes up this task.
- Retake flags lost around your UCB. You have the superior tools to punish these daredevils...bring up 4 tanks and make them think twice about trying to go for that flag again.
- Think about your squads tolerance level toward air and armor and let that dictate what flag you wish to defend/attack. If your not fond of air then take up the job of holding a backflag. If you like manning armor then take up the job of supporting a middle flag.
- Get over the fact that your infantry kit is no longer the big fish in the sea on vehicle maps. You will die more often...sometimes in random bombings. Armor and air are the assets to fear and covet on these maps. Start playing with this in mind and enjoy the sheer carnage and epic nature of the round. Everyone is part of the food chain...everyone dies.|TG-12th|mantis


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04-13-2007, 07:07 PM #2
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
That's why he is in the 12th folks!!!! Outstanding post Mantis and I am just as guilty as charged

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04-13-2007, 07:14 PM #3
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Washing County, Pa.
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- 45
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- 967
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
very good post FB well put and to the point.....+rep
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04-13-2007, 09:18 PM #4
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
I love taking down choppers so i always try to get the mobile aa.One thing I notice on these maps is lack of air support for us on the ground.The air jockeys just want to fly or fight against other pilots instead of supporting the
infantry and armor
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04-13-2007, 10:49 PM #5
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Here! Here! And Once again.
@mucbur54:
I wouldn't be so quick to wonder why the jet jockeys aren't supporting their ground troops more when they are busy in a furball at 400-700m ASL, especially if the Frogfoot or even the attack chopper is consistently taken out of play. What better way to support the ground troops than to keep random carpet bombings off their backs?
I mentioned this elsewhere, but its worth repeating, one thing that would make supporting ground troops more effective would be a commander to designate coordinates for air strikes, especially when passed up the COC by squad leaders who find themselves in a pinch. A pilot that can get in quick, place his ordinance and get out or get back to prowling the skies above would simplify the task enormously.
I only wish the German A2A wasn't so completely borked comparatively. PoE is a more than a little lopsided in that respect, IMO. 3 men required to man a "jet" team that is half as effective (or worse) as their two man counter-part just doesn’t make sense to me. You’ll never see the Frogfoot sitting in its hangar while the pilot pleads with the server for someone to operate the gunnery seat. It’s a menace the second someone closes the canopy.
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04-15-2007, 11:29 PM #6
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
I do like the way they keep each side different in terms of jets but it really is lopsided. The Ukranian fighter can one shot anything he sees and blast away from anything on his tail. Even at the cost of similarities between the 2 countries, i wouldnt mind having a tornado type jet instead of the frogfoot. The Tornado was the best idea as a mulit-prupose jet. 2 people, coordination, A2A, A2G, and a machine gun. Not over bearing yet still effective. Seriously, whens the last time you complained about a tornado? If they had a similar plane on Ukraine instead of the frogfoot, i think it would help out the imbalance tremendously. Then all they need is a one shot missile for the german fighter...heh
Anyways, great post Mantis
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05-01-2007, 05:07 PM #7
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- 29
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- 31
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
I hate when people complain about the armor maps
cause the infantry maps are so god dang boring I hate them. (especially fallen as some of you may know lol) I really wish First Snow and etc. would be put back into rotation
I loved the winter armor maps but anyway armored maps are way more fun even when your ground pounding (as i usually am) there is just something exciting about being curled up in the fetal position in a bush as 3 enemy tanks roll right past you. HOWEVER the mobile AA needs to be tweaked that thing kills armor far to well and of course the stinger pick up needs to be fixed (my idea would not to make it tracking just make the rocket go very very fast like Desert Combat had)

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05-02-2007, 12:19 PM #8
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
I never understood why First Snow was even removed, it is one of the best maps.

POE2 Developer


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05-02-2007, 03:23 PM #9
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05-02-2007, 06:20 PM #10
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05-02-2007, 07:31 PM #11
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05-02-2007, 08:03 PM #12
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Please put first snow back in the rotation.
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05-03-2007, 07:35 AM #13
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Wait... Wait a minute. So are you saying that the rumors that there are these evil cyborg constructs posing as admins, seeking humanity's doom and broadcasting their signals from somewhere in the Frozen North, aren't true after all? Well that’s a relief. Hey, wait a minute... Isn't that an admin tag I see underneath your name? Where's the real Icky? I want to see the real Icky!!

On topic, I thought that the snow map with the nuclear silos at the German UCB and the helipad at the grain elevators near the center of the map was a fun one. Was that First Snow?Last edited by Braidedheadman; 05-03-2007 at 12:32 PM.

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05-03-2007, 08:08 AM #14
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Ya you got the right map...thats First Snow. We can easily bring it back for variety but I think you'll quickly catch on why it was removed. That map just isn't a good fit for our style of play. The map is extremely bare of cover so it really sucks trying to move on foot anywhere or just plain stay alive while attacking/defending a flag. Armor camping is a bigtime problem...same with snipers. The eurotiger can have a field day. For a server that has a heavy focus on squadplay and tactics it just doesn't fit well. The squad that takes most of the armor has fun but those without it have a really frustrating time.
Guardian is similar but made is made even worse by the extremely long travel times and two frogfoots for UKR. We brought that back just to play the 32 version for variety and all I saw was complaints.
Still though...show up this weekend...I'll probably throw it in the rotation for a bit.|TG-12th|mantis


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05-03-2007, 12:36 PM #15
Re: Understanding the dynamics of vehicle maps
Hmmm... now that you mention it, I do recall some frustration due to the lack of cover. But then, I don't recall anyone really using the transport choppers to get squads moved. Too often it was some pubby trying to ram the attack choppers or spam rockets on flags. And if the attack choppers present too much of a problem on that map, they can be removed now, right?

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