Re: USMC attacking Berezan island

**Donagel** · 07-30-2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by 9mmATX

I think im the first to make it to the USMC carrier and kill the tomahok then used it against them. lol rofl

I am not a huge rule-miser, but are you not admitting to a punishable offence?

**khaerus** · 07-30-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Donagel

I am not a huge rule-miser, but are you not admitting to a punishable offence?

At the start of this thread, that question was asked, and not answered...

Concerning that specific incident, I wrote a short AAR note concerning it, while acknowledging the fact that 9mm stealing their Tomahawk launcher would probably get some discussion going, and some concrete rules down... which hasn't happened yet.

As for when he actually did it, I was in his squad (not his SL, but an SM) and I knew what he was doing, and I told him it was still a grey area, and I told him not to shoot anyone, which he didn't. He did C4 one of the launchers, killing one guy. When the USMC finally got wise, 9mm didn't fire a round trying to make an escape.

I still think it was absolutely hilarious, and gameplay-wise, I'll never really like the idea that there are some enemy assets that can't be touched, but I understand that it might (probably will?) fall under the heading of "don't even look at the other team's uncap."

In my head at the time, I rationalized it with "it's a new map, what actions are actually possible, etc." If it counts for anything, he asked me if it was ok, and I did not tell him not to do it.

I would to see a ruling on it, but for the record, there was no Dome of death that claimed him... The verdict is?

**ProjectNA** · 07-30-2007, 02:57 PM

This would *seem* to be similar to firing Arty out of a UCB. In that case its allowed to take out the asset.

**WhiskeySix** · 07-30-2007, 03:22 PM

It won't be an issue - Dome of Death was turned off for that one night only - as a debug check (lag issue). With DoD on, you just have enough time to plant and detonate C4 on the TLAM launchers before you die.

**machowner** · 07-30-2007, 05:12 PM

wouldn't that make it a sucide mission though??? I thought those were against TG rules also. Essentially this would make the assest a no go and completely protected. Not trying to an **S, just trying to make some observations.

**DaV** · 07-30-2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by FBmantis

This will never get better if we throw up our hands and complain but keep all TGers in one ground squad.(this is just a general statement...not related to any squad or anyone in this topic)

I know for a fact that many that are new to the TG server or TG level of play (tactical), do appreicate your "learn TG" squads. Makes guys come back to the best server out there. Much appreciated…..

**Rick_Slick** · 07-30-2007, 06:58 PM

I'm kinda torn on the whole Tomahawk thing. Basically, it's a guided arty-like kill-anything-in-one-shot insta-death weapon that has implied protection by being on a UCB.

I agree it's probably not very "TG" for an enemy to man the launcher and start using it against the enemy, but I don't think it's very "TG" to go into the dome of death on purpose to perform a suicide operation to take it out, since going on a suicide mission in a jihad jeep is also prohibited. The more "TG" way would be to perform an airstrike on the carrier with the purpose of taking out the launcher, but then you've got bombs going off on the carrier which people will complain of spawnraping, so blah blah blah.

How was this dealt with during beta-testing?

**Greasy Mullet** · 07-30-2007, 07:02 PM

We simply bombed it during testing.

**9mmATX** · 07-30-2007, 08:27 PM

it wasnt a suicide mission and wat makes you think that. also you can use the machine guns on a plane to blow it up

**jmaker** · 07-30-2007, 08:38 PM

He was saying when and if the Dome of Death is on (which it should be from now on), you presumably will only have enough time to make it to the launcher to plant your C4 before you die from the Dome, thus guaranteeing it a suicide mission.

In your case the Dome of Death was off for that round, so you had free reign on the carrier.

**machowner** · 07-31-2007, 02:14 AM

Yea, that is what I meant. It seems though that the situation is left up to a plane using its machine guns to take it out. That even seems a bit grayish though when you shouldn't even have your planes out that far.

**9mmATX** · 07-31-2007, 05:37 PM

oh ok

**tHa_KhAn** · 07-31-2007, 08:59 PM

Jihad jeeping is a cheezy way to get kills to pad your stats. It's non TG to purposely die for nothing other than stats.

Defending a flag as the last man standing versus armor and a large horde is also suicide. This may too be guaranteed death, but it is in an effort to help the team first, kills are secondary as holding the flag is primary.

The tomahawk mission would be similar to the second example. You may be guaranteed to die, but it is a selfless act to assist the team. There very little benefit to jihad jeeps that could not be accomplished in some other means just as easily. TG rules aren't against suicide missions, they are against suiciding as a weapon.

**Rick_Slick** · 07-31-2007, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

Jihad jeeping is a cheezy way to get kills to pad your stats. It's non TG to purposely die for nothing other than stats.

Defending a flag as the last man standing versus armor and a large horde is also suicide. This may too be guaranteed death, but it is in an effort to help the team first, kills are secondary as holding the flag is primary.

The tomahawk mission would be similar to the second example. You may be guaranteed to die, but it is a selfless act to assist the team. There very little benefit to jihad jeeps that could not be accomplished in some other means just as easily. TG rules aren't against suicide missions, they are against suiciding as a weapon.

Not to start up a subject that's probably been debated to death on these forums long before I got here:

TG rules prohibiting it aside, jihad jeeping a tank to prevent it from killing your teammates at some future point is more similar to suiciding in the dome of death to C4 the Tomahawk to prevent it from killing your teammates at some future point than you'd like to consider. If destroying the Tomahawk to prevent deaths on your team is a "selfless act to assist the team", why is destroying a tank to prevent deaths on your team then somehow "not in the spirit of TG"?

You make the assumption that jihad jeeping a tank is purely for stats. When I do it (not on the TG server, obviously), I do it to prevent the further use of that asset from killing my team. Just as you are doing in the Tomahawk example. Why would one suicide mission somehow be more meaningful and TG-like than the other?

It has nothing to do with stats -- it has everything to do with the most effective and quickest way to deliver the charge and surviving. The only other way as a Spec Ops to destroy that tank is to plant C4 and hope the tank rolls past (largely ineffective), or run up to the tank to plant C4 hoping the tank doesn't see me (not effective in open areas or if the tank is moving). Or shoot it approximately 513,000 times with your sidearm, if your commander agrees to supply you with enough supply crates for the next 12 hours to continue reloading, which is an extremely difficult commitment to get out of him.

Again, I understand the rules are what they are for jihad jeeping, but if you're going to prohibit that tactic as "not TG like", I don't see how sacrificing yourself to the dome of death to plant C4 on the Tomahawk is much different, especially when there are other means available to destroy the launcher (jets).

It's a slippery slope.

**tHa_KhAn** · 07-31-2007, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Rick_Slick

It's a slippery slope.

Agreed. However, the tomahawk issue isn't one that will be abused as fast IMHO. The Jeeps do get abused fast. If some clown wants to keep sneaking all that way to repeatedly C4 assets on his own order, he'd be in violation of other rules already. Again, just my opinion.

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