Re: How to do well on Fallen

**Santa** · 09-11-2007, 01:43 AM

I agree to a point, I like defenses. Almost all the plans ive written up for past scrims have been very defensive in nature because of everything you said. Its easier to setup a defense beforehand in order to kill people, but very hard to organize an attack on the fly. Its also much harder to get several squads to work together on the attack than it is on defense.

However, there are some maps where its better to leave flags and defend the approaches to flags. This is still defense, its just more aggressive and far away from the flags. There really are only 2 maps like this, fallen and spies. Fallen is small enough that squads can move out away from a flag to keep an approach to their flag clear. Spies is good for this because you can spread a squad out far and you can see quite a bit since there aren't many things obstructing your view. When the entire team is doing this in an organized fashion, despite having little defense on flags, you will never lose a flag.

But that is mostly impractical, since it will only work if you have all elite SLs, a smart CO with good SLs, or are in a scrim. In any of those situations, youd probably win anyway no matter what you do.

**Braidedheadman** · 09-11-2007, 02:56 AM

Here's an ATC image of Fallen that I whipped up (USMC flag in place of German) real quick to illustrate what I saw happening the night I described earlier:

The squad numbers probably aren’t consistent with the actual deployment at the time. But the only significant change I made to the ATC really was in the placement of Squad 4. It’s more of a retrospective, "What I would have liked to have seen done differently if I could have my way," illustration in that regard. Had we had just a couple of bodies on the back flags, the one or two sneaks who flipped the crash site would not have been successful and the whole map would have been a rout north through south east of the Ukraine UCB.

**Lucky Shot** · 09-11-2007, 03:09 AM

Braided, I think you may have found another Easter Egg!

Lucky Shot

**Braidedheadman** · 09-11-2007, 05:10 AM

I've also been thinking that, given the way the flags are arranged coupled with Fallen's bleed logic, the Germans have a clear defensive advantage on that map. It should be easier for them to contain the three flags that they need to secure Ukraine bleed than it is for the Ukraine to secure theirs. Moving west, they’ll have more cover and concealment to work with than the Ukraine will moving east and the German defensive/harassment line will be more uniformly deployed with fewer holes.

For the Ukraine to do the same, they're either outflanked with the German UCB to the north east and the Lumber Mill and South Cabin flags to the west and south west, or they need to secure both LM and SC in addition to either North Cabin, Crash Site, or Trenches.

The way I see it, Crash Site is harder to hold because, again, it puts the German UCB, NC and Trenches in good positions to outflank and overrun Crash Site from three sides, requiring more men in/around the flag area to defend at the expense of the defensive line. And North Cabin is behind a river, which makes sending reinforcements risky as they cross the water. It's also right in line with troops moving north out of Crash to retake NC, meaning that reinforcements are more likely to be cut down before they arrive, not to mention all the open area the Ukraine must contend with through that section of the, making harassment more difficult. Moreover, either one of these options makes for a long, sparse defensive line with lots of holes.

Trenches is probably the Ukraine's best bet as their defensive/harassment line between LM, SC, and Trenches is shortest through here (more compact; fewer holes to plug) and they are in an excellent position to harass crash site (a favorite place to spawn for many people), outflanking it from the southeast, south, and west. They’ve also got the river to use on two fronts to their advantage, which can be a real pain for the Germans coming out of their UCB.

Overall, I can't see any reason why the German team can't secure NC, CS, and Trenches at the start of every round before Ukr forces arrive and immediately set up their defensive line. With an effective kill zone in place, it's practically free frags for everyone and I don't see why some people, pubbies especially, feel the need to run after the next flag once they've secured bleed against the Ukraine. In a perfect world, I'd put money down on the Germans not losing that map very often and probably winning by large ticket counts more often than not.

**Braidedheadman** · 09-11-2007, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

Braided, I think you may have found another Easter Egg!

Lucky Shot

LOL! I see it now. At first I was like, "WTF? Easter Egg?" I totally getcha now though, lol.

**Rick_Slick** · 09-11-2007, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by icky

It happens to me too. Knowing the position of friendlies is the most important factor in avoiding being shot. Also try to stay aware of who is in a fight and who is dying. If a squad gets wiped out, you know that Santa is coming.

Fixed it for you.

**Lucky Shot** · 09-13-2007, 05:55 PM

@ Braided

Braided, we did a scrim on Fallen where as the Ukraine we initially sent our entire team to the crash site. From there we set up battle lines with 2 squads at the Crash Site, 1 inbetween North Cabin and Lumbermill (more towards lumbermill) 1 at South Cabin (Between South Cabin and Trenches) and then 1 quick response squad in between the 3 flags for quick reinforcements. Our opponents pretty much relied on a ton of pressure but because of our flexibility we were able to shift to hot points very quickly. Because of the pre-arranged kill zones we inflicted ridiculous losses on the enemy. I am sure your way would work, it's just some info for what we did do during a TG scrim.

Lucky Shot

**jmaker** · 09-13-2007, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by icky

It happens to me too. Knowing the position of friendlies is the most important factor in avoiding being shot. Also try to stay aware of who is in a fight and who is dying. If a squad gets wiped out, you know that trouble is coming.

You got that right. Trouble is a beast!

**kilevvri1** · 09-13-2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

@ Braided

Braided, we did a scrim on Fallen where as the Ukraine we initially sent our entire team to the crash site. From there we set up battle lines with 2 squads at the Crash Site, 1 inbetween North Cabin and Lumbermill (more towards lumbermill) 1 at South Cabin (Between South Cabin and Trenches) and then 1 quick response squad in between the 3 flags for quick reinforcements. Our opponents pretty much relied on a ton of pressure but because of our flexibility we were able to shift to hot points very quickly. Because of the pre-arranged kill zones we inflicted ridiculous losses on the enemy. I am sure your way would work, it's just some info for what we did do during a TG scrim.

Lucky Shot

If I remember correctly I was in that scrim and Lucky is absolutely right we tore them up.

**Braidedheadman** · 09-13-2007, 10:09 PM

Interesting. I placed squad 5 & 6 near the NC and CS to indicate where they might take an aggressive stance against German forces, forward of the defender's defensive/harassment operations. But essentially, I view them as the fast response or roam squads that you mention. They aren't fixed at their positions indicated on the map. The idea for them would be to shore up defenses and plug holes during a German push and to put pressure on those two flags during lulls, focusing on kills and flipping flags only when a window of opportunity arises.

Should they succeed in flipping a flag, as we did in the (German) AAR I posted above, the harassment lines move forward to accommodate and the new front and contain Germans outside of their UCB. I figure that CS would be the most logical flag to try and flip first as it opens up the whole length of the river for use as a superb defensive line; a tough nut to crack for people trying to cross. Completing map dominance by adding NC to Ukr-held territories completes the pinch around the German UCB.

But even then, I feel it would be more worthwhile to cede control of the NC to the Germans as the Ukr would, by that point, have sustainable bleed even if they lost a flag and the German spearhead would most likely be broken up into at least two parts, rather than one massive push outward, as people chose between two spawn points. By giving them a little more territory to cover, the Germans are thinned out that much more, making defense more sustainable. More than that, however, the Ukraine team would not be making full use of the river as the most effective kill zone on the map; a map advantage that is uniquely Ukraine.

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