A little fairness - Page 2

**Ferris Bueller** · 10-29-2007, 01:23 AM

Yes, we do expect civility and maturity from everyone, no matter how many rounds theyve lost, no matter how bad they got spanked. Those two things are part of the foundation of TG, are expected of anyone who plays here, and REQUIRED of anyone who wears the tags.

Its not a matter of telling people to "suck it up". Its about having the common sense to realize that it is, in fact, a game. If its not going your way, you can do one of three things:
1.)Take appropriate action to correct the problem.
2.)Work with the problem as a hurdle to be overcome and rally your team to the cause.
3.)Exit the game.

It's that simple, it really is. TG has standards of play for a reason and thats what separates us from the pub crowd. We conduct ourselves in a manner that is above and beyond the rest of the gaming world. We expect anyone who wants to play here to do the same. If they think we're being too harsh, theres plenty of other places they can play where nobody will bat an eye at racial epithets, name-calling, swearing, UCB camping, etc, ad nauseam. But not here. Thats the reason why TG commands the respect we do in many of the games we play. Thats why we have people who develop games come post on our forums and play on our servers. They dont want to be surrounded by the kiddie-pool gaming style that most pub servers put out there.

Furthermore, nobody said anything about point whoring, most people dont care about points in PR anyway because they are absolutely, 100% irrelevant. You get no unlocks, you get no awards, you get no bonuses. People flock to their friends because they know their friends are going to be dependable, follow and give appropriate orders, play the game with a high level of skill and teamwork. Thats what people stick to their friends for in this game, and for a large portion of us, thats other TG members.

Tonight does show a contrast to that though, where a team that is getting routed can turn around and win in the face of what should seemingly be a much harder adversary. I just finished a round on Qwai which had maybe 3 people with TG tags on it on the cinese side (myself included) and 10-15 on the other at the beginning of the round, maybe more (several of the non-tag wearing regulars that everyone knows and loves were on the USMC side as well). The round started, we had a horrible commander, got beat down at Fishing village and things were looking grim. Then all of a sudden, ColmLynchPlayer aka gerardnm here on the forums, took over as CO, the squads mysteriously banded together and we retook fishing village. We held a defense at fishing village the entire game, the whole team forming a perimeter in all directions under heavy sniper fire and armor fire from across the river. We managed to win by close to 100 tickets. It was a beautiful thing to see a team get organized and push back against a superior attacking force and hold it for an entire game. Thats proof that it CAN happen.

**Steiner** · 10-29-2007, 03:59 AM

I do to an extent understand what the original poster is saying, but what I personally frown most on is players who switch sides. I can understand people who switch side where there is basically only full squads and no room, and we all know that it kind of such to run around in a one-man-squad.

However...What surprises me is the notion that a TG-IHS on on team should make such a differerence that people say that it do. The same goes with two TG-IHS. I mean, is it not mostly a psy-effect? I almost [but I could be getting this wrong] get the impression that people are of the opinion that the people in the IHS are better players than other guests at the server. And to my knowledge is that not the case. There are a lot of very good players who just come to the server as guests and play. I believe that the only thing that might be giving IHS an edge is that they are communicative and are used to operate within the boundries of a squad. I dont think that an IHS-member shoots straighter or throws a grenade more accurate etc. I would like to believe that those people who are playing PR have some experience from BF, given that I expect them to have played vanilla for quite a while and then gone PR since they want something more "real". With that do I mean that most players ought to be able to understand how a squad should work, how to communicate within a squad and how to behave. If not, well, then the problem lay with the player. Also, if one venture in to the TG-server, people ought to know what to expect - and what is expected of them. To then see squads that is really not working properly with no active squadleading or teamwork, well, then that is nothing short than a failure on the players side. I am almost inclined to say: Don't blaim the IHS is people on the server have not understud the concept of PR and the TG PR-server.

Also, I have on numerous times found myself in a squad with five people I have never seen or played with before and it has worked out just fine with tactics, communication and teamwork. Bottomline, and what I guess that I am trying to say: Any six random guests who squad up and act along the lines of the TG-server ought to be able to face off against any IHS.

**Catraphact** · 10-29-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steiner

Any six random guests who squad up and act along the lines of the TG-server ought to be able to face off against any IHS.

Yeah right. And I say that with all due respect.
I was not going to post here again, lest it sound that I am making much ado about nothing, but that statement is something I cannot leave unanswered.
Maybe, and only maybe, some people have not yet awoken to the reality of BF2's community. They are regular gamers who play to have fun. Many of them come to PR for one reason: It's something new that other people seem to be playing. More maps and its free.
To expect everyone to join knowing the "TG ethos" is a bit unrealistic in my opinion. And that is an understatement.

In my experience, to have a squad functioning effectively, it normally needs a couple of regulars. Thankfully, TG has a lot of regulars. However, when situations such as the one I describe arise, some regulars switch sides in frustration, leaving the team balance in tatters.
As I said earlier, due to the influx of lots of new players to PR, they may not know crucial things such as the Rally Point system or the Kit system. More often than not, they get thrust on the losing team. If they get on the winning team, or an even game, regulars quickly answer their questions.

As commander, I can recount multiple times where I have asked a squad to set down a rally point and have gotten, "What's a Rally point?" I know this as I command often. Then I mute all other squads and explain the Rally Point system to the SL in question. You need a few regulars on the team to make it work effectively. As I said, this is not an issue on most nights

Having a team full of TG players does not have a "psychological" effect. It has a very real one. Regulars or random people who know a thing or two about the game start switching/leaving in frustration. A squad leader that does not know how to set a rally point is obviously no match for a squad that knows each other, has played together before and knows the game/map.

I leave, but never switch. This opens up slots for other players, and thanks to the huge popularity of the TG server (I love the TG server myself. Best server I've played on for BF2, or for a lot of other games for that matter), new players, who are generally "newbies" get thrust onto the losing team.

Also, when people teamswitch, giving one side not a FIVE player advantage, but a whopping TEN player advantage, initial flags get steamrolled, and the team has little opportunity to come back.

**Steiner** · 10-29-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Maybe, and only maybe, some people have not yet awoken to the reality of BF2's community. They are regular gamers who play to have fun. Many of them come to PR for one reason: It's something new that other people seem to be playing. More maps and its free.

Yes, PR is something new for many people and it do set other demands on the players than vanilla BF. I would expect that people who download the PR-mod actually know something about prior of doing so, and also that it is a bit different than "normal" BF. I would also expect that people download PR for other reasons than that it's new. Perhaps it is just me, but I downloaded PR because I knew that it set other demands on me as a player - and especially as a teamplayer.

Quote:

To expect everyone to join knowing the "TG ethos" is a bit unrealistic in my opinion. And that is an understatement.

Is it? I really dont want to make it sound as I am being elitist or have an attitude of any sort in this matter, because that is really not the case. But on the server-info are there a few easy and simple rules of what goes on the server and what is expected. In short: Squad up & follow orders. It is that simple. I would assume that such simple rules are there for a reason i.e. to more or less force everyone playing to be organized and to make the task of those chosing to SL or command much more easier. My first reaction of hearing of people who fail with either squading up or following orders is wondering what they are doing there.

Quote:

In my experience, to have a squad functioning effectively, it normally needs a couple of regulars. Thankfully, TG has a lot of regulars. However, when situations such as the one I describe arise, some regulars switch sides in frustration, leaving the team balance in tatters.

As I said earlier, due to the influx of lots of new players to PR, they may not know crucial things such as the Rally Point system or the Kit system. More often than not, they get thrust on the losing team. If they get on the winning team, or an even game, regulars quickly answer their questions.

I disagree.

In order to have a squad functioning properly, it require one person to take charge and five others who listen and follow orders. I have been in situations that you describe when I have found myself in a team with only a few TG-members, while perhaps my own IHS [the 6th] have been on the other team, along with a number of other regulars. I really dont see any problem with that. More often than not do I see that the squads work as they should and do in no way feel that it's a lost battle. I still argue that IHS-people aren´t any super-soldiers and that any squad composed of people fairly aware of what they are doing [including one or two people who are still learning but obeying orders] should be able to go on par.

Quote:

Having a team full of TG players does not have a "psychological" effect. It has a very real one. Regulars or random people who know a thing or two about the game start switching/leaving in frustration. A squad leader that does not know how to set a rally point is obviously no match for a squad that knows each other, has played together before and knows the game/map.

Look at the latest internal scrim that TG had where the "most regular" team composed of a lot of people from the IHS got their asses properly handed to them. Why? Because the opposing side worked along the lines promoted on the TG-server, operating as a team where they listened and followed orders issues by those who could lead.

If incompetent squadleading leads to a team is loosing, then rather than switching team, leave the squad and start up a new one and try again.

**Catraphact** · 10-29-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steiner

I still argue that IHS-people aren´t any super-soldiers and that any squad composed of people fairly aware of what they are doing [including one or two people who are still learning but obeying orders] should be able to go on par.
.

Sorry for posting again:
I think you misunderstood my comment about "regular players." By regular players I don't mean TG IHS members, I mean people like me or others who frequent the server but rarely post in the forums. IE: Simply familiar names on the server. They are normally the one or two people who have a clue what they are doing. And when they get frustrated, they sometimes teamswitch as they give up hope. I myself try to rally up players by commanding, or setting up a squad named "Tea Time." I'm sure I can get a good squad together, and often do, with a few other familiar names to provide a counter-weight. I'm saying that when this does not happen people get frustrated and then team balance goes to hell.

Seeing as my proposal for randomising the team selection is unlikely to happen, I have one message for regulars and TG players. Help the losing time out a little sometimes

.

**dave m** · 10-29-2007, 09:56 AM

Look at the latest internal scrim that TG had where the "most regular" team composed of a lot of people from the IHS got their asses properly handed to them. Why? Because the opposing side worked along the lines promoted on the TG-server, operating as a team where they listened and followed orders issues by those who could lead.
With all due respect I believe this is an invalid argument. The players on the winning side were all regulars to PR and the TG server which is not aften the case during regular pub play.And I might add was not the case on our team (you know the one that took a spanking).I believe at least five of our players were non PR players.5 out of 23 did it make adifference against 22 PR vets you tell me.I'm saying they were bad players,but I think it did make some.Now compare that to a team of "35" with a majarity (spelling) Pr vets against "25" random guys with afew vets and tell me what you think the result is gonna be even if the other team "sucks it up".

**dave m** · 10-29-2007, 09:58 AM

that should be' I'm not saying" .I'm not anoob at PR but I am to the forums.Iwill try to do a better job of proofreading in the future accept my apolgies

**Ferris Bueller** · 10-29-2007, 10:51 AM

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I have to ask you this Cataphract: Did you read any of my posts here? It sure doesnt seem that way. I figured I was being nice by giving a rough outline of the rules and proceedures that are required to play here, obviously that wasnt enough. So for solid reference, I'll post this:
READ FIRST before posting in this forum.

Please be sure to pay attention to the Basic Rules of Conduct, BF2 Rules and Guidelines and Tactical Gamer Primer links in that thread, which is stickied in this very forum by the way. Regardless of what you feel is realistic of our expectations of people who join the server, those are the rules. If people fail to comply, they shape up or get the boot. Bottom line. We have close to 20,000 people registered on the forums. I'd say at least 5-10% of those are people who signed up just to ask why they were kicked/banned from one of the many TG-hosted games and complain about it. Well, thats too bad. They can follow procedure and our very understanding admin staff will more than likely give them a second chance to act right on the servers. Thats more than most places will give.

So yes, we expect everyone to conform to the TG standard while they play here. If they cant do that, as I stated earlier, theres plenty of other servers they can play on. If the team balance goes out of whack and people feel like it is unfair, speak up in a proper manner and it will be resolved. However, note that saying one time over in-game chat that the teams are out of balance is not going to get your message across nine times out of ten. Try using teamspeak, or making sure that you have someone's attention in-game before you give up due to "nobody listening".

At this point, I think enough has been said in this thread and I see it starting to take a dive into something worse than the original intent. The point has been made on both sides. If an admin could close this thread, I think that its served its purpose.

**Bernout** · 10-29-2007, 11:10 AM

I've read all of the posts here and just like in the real world things are always influenced by perception. Whether or not you feel that a side with a bunch of TG folks on it is a significant factor, I'm sure we can all agree that sides that are more evenly matched is in everyone's best interest since it is usually a hell of a lot more fun.

Since the people who are reading this are the more active players, I hope they will consider switching sides when...

1. There is a numbers disparity. I thought we did a good job of this yesterday for the p/w night when I was playing and it was noticed that on a couple of occasions one side had an 8+ person advantage at round start.

2. One side is getting their butts kicked.

The bottom line IMO is that this is one of those things that once again relies on us the players to take care of.

Bernout

**khaerus** · 10-29-2007, 11:27 AM

I'm watching the thread fairly carefully...

I want to leave it open, because I think it's a very important topic here, and I want to give everyone a chance to voice opinions and get the viewpoints of their peers...

I do want to urge everyone to keep the conversation polite, though, and to really consider what the other guy is saying or not saying, as the case may be. As an example, I'll refer to IMA-50AE's post: I had actually spent a few minutes in TS with IMA that night, after that round, explaining fairly specifically why his team had gotten beaten- IMA had indicated that he understood what happened, but still felt like he needed to vent a bit here... That means "we need to be more proactive!"

I do not want to encourage a team to complain every time they get beat, but we need to be highly aware of what's going on... and that means putting yourself in the other guy's shoes. Keep it simple, civil, and constructive. Do that, and the thread can go on forever, as far as I'm concerned.

Rafterman1987 · 10-30-2007, 11:06 PM

Maybe it's just that I end up on a team with the TG guys often, maybe I just don't play the games where the severe spankings occur. But I've never really been able to say honestly "they beat us because they're TG!"

I've often blamed it on:
A) one of the ludacrisly awesome commanders that float around the server ( most aren't TG might I add, not to say anything against a TG commander ).
B) lemmings syndrome where squads see other squads attacking and decide to follow along leaving no one defending.
C) team with a commander vs team without
D) people just plain giving up

Now the undeniable fact is that TG will usually have the top squad. Why? Well play in one of their squads for the answer. They talk to eachother, follow the basic strategies of the game, and know the maps. It's not their tag that affects any of those things. The teamspeak thing is flimsy at best, a commander is the next best thing for coordination, sure it's slower but it has the same overall result.

However, all that being said... There are a lot of people on the server that are newer to the game and dont know the maps, the strats, and are somewhat hesitant to communicate in their squads. That's a little bit of a setback when through some strange twist of fate they all seem to end up on one team. When a team loses by a large margin for a few maps on end, the problem is probably lack of a commander or lack of experienced players to lead squads on the losing team.

The best solution seems to be for everyone to take initiative and try to balance things out. It's not just TG members that keep the stack going, they just get singled out because they're higher profile than the other shmos :P

I guess I'll sum it up with this: if we had an even number of TG players on each side, are we to assume the game is decided strictly by the actions of those players only? :P

**Dirtboy** · 10-30-2007, 11:22 PM

Gentlemen...I wholeheartedly agree with catraphact! I normally always have a "TG Assault" Squad going and is ALWAYS open to the public. I don't care if you dont have a mic, as long as you follow orders and listen. But the night in question, I wanted to play with my IHS. Call me selfish. For this I am sorry. I will once again won't lock a squad unless for a special purpose!

10-29-2007, 01:23 AM	#16 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 4,686	Re: A little fairness Yes, we do expect civility and maturity from everyone, no matter how many rounds theyve lost, no matter how bad they got spanked. Those two things are part of the foundation of TG, are expected of anyone who plays here, and REQUIRED of anyone who wears the tags. Its not a matter of telling people to "suck it up". Its about having the common sense to realize that it is, in fact, a game. If its not going your way, you can do one of three things: 1.)Take appropriate action to correct the problem. 2.)Work with the problem as a hurdle to be overcome and rally your team to the cause. 3.)Exit the game. It's that simple, it really is. TG has standards of play for a reason and thats what separates us from the pub crowd. We conduct ourselves in a manner that is above and beyond the rest of the gaming world. We expect anyone who wants to play here to do the same. If they think we're being too harsh, theres plenty of other places they can play where nobody will bat an eye at racial epithets, name-calling, swearing, UCB camping, etc, ad nauseam. But not here. Thats the reason why TG commands the respect we do in many of the games we play. Thats why we have people who develop games come post on our forums and play on our servers. They dont want to be surrounded by the kiddie-pool gaming style that most pub servers put out there. Furthermore, nobody said anything about point whoring, most people dont care about points in PR anyway because they are absolutely, 100% irrelevant. You get no unlocks, you get no awards, you get no bonuses. People flock to their friends because they know their friends are going to be dependable, follow and give appropriate orders, play the game with a high level of skill and teamwork. Thats what people stick to their friends for in this game, and for a large portion of us, thats other TG members. Tonight does show a contrast to that though, where a team that is getting routed can turn around and win in the face of what should seemingly be a much harder adversary. I just finished a round on Qwai which had maybe 3 people with TG tags on it on the cinese side (myself included) and 10-15 on the other at the beginning of the round, maybe more (several of the non-tag wearing regulars that everyone knows and loves were on the USMC side as well). The round started, we had a horrible commander, got beat down at Fishing village and things were looking grim. Then all of a sudden, ColmLynchPlayer aka gerardnm here on the forums, took over as CO, the squads mysteriously banded together and we retook fishing village. We held a defense at fishing village the entire game, the whole team forming a perimeter in all directions under heavy sniper fire and armor fire from across the river. We managed to win by close to 100 tickets. It was a beautiful thing to see a team get organized and push back against a superior attacking force and hold it for an entire game. Thats proof that it CAN happen. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

10-29-2007, 03:59 AM	#17 (permalink)
Steiner Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Age: 29 Posts: 671	Re: A little fairness I do to an extent understand what the original poster is saying, but what I personally frown most on is players who switch sides. I can understand people who switch side where there is basically only full squads and no room, and we all know that it kind of such to run around in a one-man-squad. However...What surprises me is the notion that a TG-IHS on on team should make such a differerence that people say that it do. The same goes with two TG-IHS. I mean, is it not mostly a psy-effect? I almost [but I could be getting this wrong] get the impression that people are of the opinion that the people in the IHS are better players than other guests at the server. And to my knowledge is that not the case. There are a lot of very good players who just come to the server as guests and play. I believe that the only thing that might be giving IHS an edge is that they are communicative and are used to operate within the boundries of a squad. I dont think that an IHS-member shoots straighter or throws a grenade more accurate etc. I would like to believe that those people who are playing PR have some experience from BF, given that I expect them to have played vanilla for quite a while and then gone PR since they want something more "real". With that do I mean that most players ought to be able to understand how a squad should work, how to communicate within a squad and how to behave. If not, well, then the problem lay with the player. Also, if one venture in to the TG-server, people ought to know what to expect - and what is expected of them. To then see squads that is really not working properly with no active squadleading or teamwork, well, then that is nothing short than a failure on the players side. I am almost inclined to say: Don't blaim the IHS is people on the server have not understud the concept of PR and the TG PR-server. Also, I have on numerous times found myself in a squad with five people I have never seen or played with before and it has worked out just fine with tactics, communication and teamwork. Bottomline, and what I guess that I am trying to say: Any six random guests who squad up and act along the lines of the TG-server ought to be able to face off against any IHS. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Steiner Can't work out how to have several different images [such as banners and ribbons] in the signature, so I will drop that project for now... Caesar counted on his veteran Gaul legions. Napoleon had his Old Guard. Queen Victoria was well served by the Cold Stream Guards. Tactical Gamer can always rely on the 6th Devil's Brigade. "-He has a wife, you know. Do you know what she's called? 'Incontinentia'... Incontinentia Buttocks."

10-29-2007, 09:56 AM	#21 (permalink)
dave m Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: illinois Age: 48 Posts: 130	Re: A little fairness Look at the latest internal scrim that TG had where the "most regular" team composed of a lot of people from the IHS got their asses properly handed to them. Why? Because the opposing side worked along the lines promoted on the TG-server, operating as a team where they listened and followed orders issues by those who could lead. With all due respect I believe this is an invalid argument. The players on the winning side were all regulars to PR and the TG server which is not aften the case during regular pub play.And I might add was not the case on our team (you know the one that took a spanking).I believe at least five of our players were non PR players.5 out of 23 did it make adifference against 22 PR vets you tell me.I'm saying they were bad players,but I think it did make some.Now compare that to a team of "35" with a majarity (spelling) Pr vets against "25" random guys with afew vets and tell me what you think the result is gonna be even if the other team "sucks it up".

10-29-2007, 09:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
dave m Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: illinois Age: 48 Posts: 130	Re: A little fairness that should be' I'm not saying" .I'm not anoob at PR but I am to the forums.Iwill try to do a better job of proofreading in the future accept my apolgies

10-29-2007, 10:51 AM	#23 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 4,686	Re: A little fairness I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I have to ask you this Cataphract: Did you read any of my posts here? It sure doesnt seem that way. I figured I was being nice by giving a rough outline of the rules and proceedures that are required to play here, obviously that wasnt enough. So for solid reference, I'll post this: READ FIRST before posting in this forum. Please be sure to pay attention to the Basic Rules of Conduct, BF2 Rules and Guidelines and Tactical Gamer Primer links in that thread, which is stickied in this very forum by the way. Regardless of what you feel is realistic of our expectations of people who join the server, those are the rules. If people fail to comply, they shape up or get the boot. Bottom line. We have close to 20,000 people registered on the forums. I'd say at least 5-10% of those are people who signed up just to ask why they were kicked/banned from one of the many TG-hosted games and complain about it. Well, thats too bad. They can follow procedure and our very understanding admin staff will more than likely give them a second chance to act right on the servers. Thats more than most places will give. So yes, we expect everyone to conform to the TG standard while they play here. If they cant do that, as I stated earlier, theres plenty of other servers they can play on. If the team balance goes out of whack and people feel like it is unfair, speak up in a proper manner and it will be resolved. However, note that saying one time over in-game chat that the teams are out of balance is not going to get your message across nine times out of ten. Try using teamspeak, or making sure that you have someone's attention in-game before you give up due to "nobody listening". At this point, I think enough has been said in this thread and I see it starting to take a dive into something worse than the original intent. The point has been made on both sides. If an admin could close this thread, I think that its served its purpose. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

10-29-2007, 11:10 AM	#24 (permalink)
Bernout Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA Posts: 985	Re: A little fairness I've read all of the posts here and just like in the real world things are always influenced by perception. Whether or not you feel that a side with a bunch of TG folks on it is a significant factor, I'm sure we can all agree that sides that are more evenly matched is in everyone's best interest since it is usually a hell of a lot more fun. Since the people who are reading this are the more active players, I hope they will consider switching sides when... 1. There is a numbers disparity. I thought we did a good job of this yesterday for the p/w night when I was playing and it was noticed that on a couple of occasions one side had an 8+ person advantage at round start. 2. One side is getting their butts kicked. The bottom line IMO is that this is one of those things that once again relies on us the players to take care of. Bernout __________________ \|TG-MD6\| TG Primer

10-29-2007, 11:27 AM	#25 (permalink)
khaerus Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 1,145	Re: A little fairness I'm watching the thread fairly carefully... I want to leave it open, because I think it's a very important topic here, and I want to give everyone a chance to voice opinions and get the viewpoints of their peers... I do want to urge everyone to keep the conversation polite, though, and to really consider what the other guy is saying or not saying, as the case may be. As an example, I'll refer to IMA-50AE's post: I had actually spent a few minutes in TS with IMA that night, after that round, explaining fairly specifically why his team had gotten beaten- IMA had indicated that he understood what happened, but still felt like he needed to vent a bit here... That means "we need to be more proactive!" I do not want to encourage a team to complain every time they get beat, but we need to be highly aware of what's going on... and that means putting yourself in the other guy's shoes. Keep it simple, civil, and constructive. Do that, and the thread can go on forever, as far as I'm concerned. __________________ TG Primer--TG FAQs--BF2 Rules/SOPs--TeamSpeak--Admin!

10-30-2007, 11:06 PM	#26 (permalink)
Rafterman1987 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Age: 21 Posts: 158	Re: A little fairness Maybe it's just that I end up on a team with the TG guys often, maybe I just don't play the games where the severe spankings occur. But I've never really been able to say honestly "they beat us because they're TG!" I've often blamed it on: A) one of the ludacrisly awesome commanders that float around the server ( most aren't TG might I add, not to say anything against a TG commander ). B) lemmings syndrome where squads see other squads attacking and decide to follow along leaving no one defending. C) team with a commander vs team without D) people just plain giving up Now the undeniable fact is that TG will usually have the top squad. Why? Well play in one of their squads for the answer. They talk to eachother, follow the basic strategies of the game, and know the maps. It's not their tag that affects any of those things. The teamspeak thing is flimsy at best, a commander is the next best thing for coordination, sure it's slower but it has the same overall result. However, all that being said... There are a lot of people on the server that are newer to the game and dont know the maps, the strats, and are somewhat hesitant to communicate in their squads. That's a little bit of a setback when through some strange twist of fate they all seem to end up on one team. When a team loses by a large margin for a few maps on end, the problem is probably lack of a commander or lack of experienced players to lead squads on the losing team. The best solution seems to be for everyone to take initiative and try to balance things out. It's not just TG members that keep the stack going, they just get singled out because they're higher profile than the other shmos :P I guess I'll sum it up with this: if we had an even number of TG players on each side, are we to assume the game is decided strictly by the actions of those players only? :P

10-30-2007, 11:22 PM	#27 (permalink)
Dirtboy Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Las Vegas! Age: 24 Posts: 3,102	Re: A little fairness Gentlemen...I wholeheartedly agree with catraphact! I normally always have a "TG Assault" Squad going and is ALWAYS open to the public. I don't care if you dont have a mic, as long as you follow orders and listen. But the night in question, I wanted to play with my IHS. Call me selfish. For this I am sorry. I will once again won't lock a squad unless for a special purpose! __________________ \|TG-6th\| Dirtboy Need an Admin? \| Want to help TG? \| The 6th Devil's Brigade Jump on it!

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