PR Dev Journal. - Page 46

**Ferris Bueller** · 08-28-2008, 11:22 AM

Gentlemen, trust me, it's a whole new ballgame.
You guys are on the right track with the changes, and while I cant disclose specifics, I will give you a bit of insight:
-Firefights are going to be a lot less distanced. Fighting up close and personal is going to be prevalent.
-Tacical gameplay is going to be paramount. Run-and-gun rambo style gameplay is absolutely positively guaranteed to get you killed.
-The game is going to slow down significantly in some aspects and speed up in others.
-Giving Up after you get crit is going to be something of a double edged sword.
-LAT/HAT sniping are a thing of the past, except for possibly insurgents with RPGs (which is realistic anyway).
-Tanks having to return to main to rearm is a GOOD thing. How realistic is it that a tank can rearm from any old forward operating post? Tanks IRL require specific facilities to rearm, now the game reflects that to a higher degree.

Top Cat AJA · 08-28-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superfast

The new kit limits will make us value our lives more and that means better teamwork!

Whatever you say Super its always with a smile and sometimes a laugh, its great, makes me smile, but when i write it makes me feel like it was written by the grim reaper! lol

So another message from Mr Death, its not to you Super just everyone who sometimes forgets how much they should love and fear MGs ...

Its takes 5-10 riflemen to equal the amount of suppressing fire a LMG can lay down. Good intentions and teamwork from a squad can never make up the loss of not having an MG. The Americans died learning this when they faced German MG42 in WW2 and so will every squad in PR when they have to face an enemy LMG with just 6 rifles!

p.s. the Americans learnt by issuing 1 LMG and 1 GL per 4 men and therefore on a 64 player infantry map it would be realistic for 7 LMGs and 7 GLs to be available.

As well as lack of trust i also think i should wait till i play 0.8 before saying such things but hay it really worries me and i like to think i sort of know PR well enough to have an idea how things affect each other....lets just hope im terribly terribly wrong.

ReaperMAC · 08-28-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

No more ammo from bunkers and firebases? Makes no sense to me... tanks on Kashan will have to go ALL the way back to main for ammo, don't really like this change.

I love the change, you have to be conservative and have to know when to make a push with armor. No more lone wolfing armor units sitting on the hills of Kashan any more. You may not like it, but you will

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I have a feeling that we won't see many commanders, how many people like sitting back at main for 2 hours? I only do this when I have a very good team to work with and this rarely happens.

A direct quote from fuzzhead:

Quote:

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]fuzzhead

The commander role isn't for everyone. We dont want people filling the role who have no real desire to be there, but do it anyways out of a sense of duty. Giving the commander flashy/powerful/destructive/gimmicky unrealistic **** is just going to attract the wrong types of players. We want the commander role to be something that only a selective percentage of our player base will be interested in engaging, these are the leadership types who are approaching the game on a different level, beyond simple "realistic FPS". We realize these types are hard to come by, so we dont want to cripple a team if one of these players is not around at the moment. However if one of these types of players DOES step up to the plate, expect an amazing experience - something we DO NOT want watered down.

We have been building the commander role since v0.6 to be a very unique gameplay experience to the rest of the roles in PR. It's almost like the CO is playing a completely different game, like when he logs into PR he will be ready for a 2 hour round of a small scale defcon with live players, overwatching the battle and coordinating and relaying commands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

Get those field dressings ready... bleed starts below 75%.

Yes... medics are essential now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

What 's that restrainer to arrest insurgents? any info on this?

Pretty much like a knife...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I 'm sure it 'll all work out fine just like the previous versions, but some of the changes sound really harsh.

Yeah... but they will grow on you. Like minimap removal and squad leader spawning removed.

google · 08-28-2008, 12:31 PM

Yes, the new limits on kits worries me greatly. However, this will push squads to core kits forcing them to use more advanced tactics rather than relying on a LMG or GL to do all the dirty work. So when a squad does come up a LMG, flanking will be essential.

But I do like the ammo changes alot, it makes for a more realistic combat situation.

**Katanama** · 08-28-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

Tanks having to return to main to rearm is a GOOD thing. How realistic is it that a tank can rearm from any old forward operating post? Tanks IRL require specific facilities to rearm, now the game reflects that to a higher degree.

IRL there are people that preform the job of bringing amunition and fuel to the armor to minimize the down time of friendly armor units. As far as i know an old armor battalion would have a section for fuel and ammonition, this would be part of the HHC. Dont know about the new combined arms battalion.

My biggest grief is the limitation on AR's since in the real world you would have an AR for each fireteam assuming you split the squad in 2. The thing about needing 2 medic that I read somewhere on the PR forums I really hope not since that would finish the butchering of the infantry squads firepower

I wont make any assumptions on how this affects gameplay.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-28-2008, 03:37 PM

i am stoked for the return of supply trucks!!!

Plus i like the new commander features, though i haven't read everything fully about it but I liked what reaper quoted.........i enjoy being commander and though i can't wait to see the new weapon features/deviations (i don't really worry about vehicles because i am rarely in them) i can't wait to see if you can deploy .50 cal machine guns at a FB or bunker or an AA emplacement and Sit back as I look over the battlefield like John Connor in the beginning of T2.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-28-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I was hoping for more than 5 new maps, but I have to admit each one of them looks amazing. Any word on Basrah and the other insurgency map (can't remember name right now)? Have they been fixed and will they be included in 0.8?

Can't believe I 'm spending the weekend in the Ardennes... I had a feeling they would do this.

Gameplay changes in 0.8 (from the manual):

3 new game modes: Command & Control, Skirmish and Training
Critically wounded soldiers can be revived for up to two minutes. They can use the “Give up” button on the Caps-Lock map to opt out of waiting for a medic
Medics can now resuscitate downed soldiers which untangles them from the
ground. This is useful to make sure the epipen will do it's job
Insurgents can build hideouts to spawn at
Regular armies and the militia can deploy a heavy machine gun emplacement
The spotting system has been overhauled. Automatic spotting is practically gone. Squad leaders can send a contact report to the commander. The commander can confirm those reports and place markers on the map to warn the rest of the team
Artillery and mortars have been added to the list of possible area attacks
Pistols & SMGs do not suppress other players. Shots also need to travel some distance before they have a suppression effect
Weapons need to be reloaded manually
Bunkers & Fire bases do not resupply soldiers and vehicles anymore
Deployable assets can be placed without permission if no commander is on the team
Rally points can be placed anywhere. They are overrun and destroyed if 3 enemies get close to them or if 6 squad members die in their vincinity
Grenade launchers need to be fired at targets at least 30-40m from the shooter or the grenade will not detonate
All factions have a command post which is enterable by the commander. The commander can only use his map while inside the post.
The enemy tickets are not displayed
The main gun in any armored vehicle has a 30s usage delay
Soldiers start to bleed out when their health drops below 75%
Civilian collaborators will always respawn after 2 minutes regardless of how they died
Insurgents can be arrested using the restrainer or the shotgun
Insurgents need to defend at least 3 out of 12 weapons caches
Capturing a control point takes at least 3 men
Limited kits have been reduced in number and are only reallocated every 10 minutes
Light machine guns can be used in deployed and undeployed modes. When deployed they can only be fired while prone but are very accurate
Deploying bunkers & fire bases does require 2 supply crates. A supply truck is not needed. Other assets just need to be build close enough to a forward
outpost and do not require any supplies

WOW

No more ammo from bunkers and firebases? Makes no sense to me... tanks on Kashan will have to go ALL the way back to main for ammo, don't really like this change.
I have a feeling that we won't see many commanders, how many people like sitting back at main for 2 hours? I only do this when I have a very good team to work with and this rarely happens.
Get those field dressings ready... bleed starts below 75%.
What 's that restrainer to arrest insurgents? any info on this?
Enemy tickets not displayed... no more stalemates??

I 'm sure it 'll all work out fine just like the previous versions, but some of the changes sound really harsh.

Edit:

If you don't feel like reading the entire manual to look for all the changes, I made a list of all changes that aren't mentioned above (note the bold parts):

While holding a mine the primary commo rose can be used to place a red warning marker on the team's map. Placing a new Marker will delete the old one. The commander also can place and delete this marker
A temporary spawn time penalty which only affects the next time you die (stacking up to 5 minutes) is added by these actions:
○ Teamkill: 15 seconds per TK
○ Suicide: 30 seconds (90s for civilians)
○ Civilian killed: 120 seconds per civilian (max. 5 minutes)
○ Own weapons cache destroyed: 300 seconds (also -100 score)
Anti-tank mines and trip flares will arm themselves 15 seconds after placement - think this was 5 seconds before
The Combat Engineer carries an assault rifle with iron sights, a shotgun loaded with slugs, a tripflare, an anti-tank mine, a wrench and a shovel. On some maps the mine is replaced by a grappling hook
The Militia Medic comes equipped with the PPSh-41 submachine gun, and some smoke grenades. Healing and reviving works as with the regular medic - Militia gets to revive
The Insurgent carries the AK-47 rifle, one RKG-3 anti-tank grenade, a shovel, a pair of binoculars and some extra ammunition in a bag, which he can drop
The civilian Collaborator is unarmed. His only way to attack others is by throwing rocks at them. He can drop a few field dressings for his friends and repair vehicles with his wrench. He can also help others access high places with his grappling hook. He can use his cellphone to call in mortar strikes. Coalition players must not shoot civilians or face punishment
As more intelligence is gathered red diamond markers appear on the map showing the rough area of the weapons caches (they may be up to 140m from the marker)
Insurgents start with 100 tickets and lose 10 for each destroyed weapons cache. This is the only way for the insurgents to lose tickets.
On sniper rifles, the "switch fire mode" key (Default 3) can be used to activate a breathing sound. This simulates breath control and gives you an audio cue for when your accuracy will be at its maximum. Holding down the fire button after shooting will allow you to track your shot before rebolting the rifle
If you use an officer kit containing a signal grenade, you can access it with the 9 key
If 3 enemies are very close to the rally point (about 50m) or if 6 squad members die in this radius, then the rally has been overrun and will also be destroyed. Once destroyed, the squad can't place a new rally point for 2 minutes
Deployable MG 's, AA, razorwire and sandbags must be constructed within 200m of a forward outpost
Deployable assets can be wrecked (rendering them useless) and destroyed by further damaging the wreck. Knifing the radio twice will damage forward outposts enough to make them collapse within a short time.
Supply trucks can unload two supply crates which can be dropped by the driver by using the alternate fire key.

call the whambulance......jesus its not even out yet and people are complaing.....get over yourselves, the dev's spend their personal time, so do the testers........anyone who is "upset" and crying, just don't DL it, it would make the rest of us who are anticipating it, and who are interested in seeing the changes that much more happy.........

Its this type of whining that leads to people doing their own thing, not following the rules and thinking they are a one man army/crying/whining all the time no matter how well they or their team are doing.

Hats off to all the testers, and to all the dev's who have spent the time to put this together for us, i am so excited that muttrah city is back and I hope my sarcasm in regards to the release didn't piss anyone off.......Hats off to you guys for making PR possible with the BF2 Engine!!!

**Ghost Dog** · 08-28-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

Its this type of whining that leads to people doing their own thing, not following the rules and thinking they are a one man army/crying/whining all the time no matter how well they or their team are doing.

It 's this type of posts that should not be made... seriously I 'm so sick of the guys calling other people whiners when they are just discussing something and expressing their thoughts. You can give your opinion, but stop calling people names...

brain21 · 08-28-2008, 04:04 PM

I'm with Ghost Dog, here.
He wasn't whining, Randy.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-28-2008, 04:16 PM

.8 HASN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET, that's what gets me.......... new releases are always going to add things/delete things, I didn't mean to necessarily single you out Ghostdog, but come on, this is the dev journal, i.e. the development journal of Project Reality, the dev's are kind enough to release the manual before the release i am sure most of you can hold your feelings and or your posts on the things you don't already like, or think is harsh until sunday, or monday.........

We all should be looking at the bigger picture, more maps, a new addition of gameplay other than Insurgency or AAS, different vehicles, the u.s. army is making an appearance, new skins, etc etc.....

brain21 · 08-28-2008, 04:19 PM

So...he can't express his opinions on what's been released so far, Randy?

google · 08-28-2008, 04:28 PM

The point of a forum is to discuss things. If content has been released people can discuss it. I agree with you Randy in the fact that .8 will be better in the big picture. But there are going to be some harsh changes which people can discuss if they like. I mean, there's a reason the devs have dev updates and release information.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-28-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brain21

So...he can't express his opinions on what's been released so far, Randy?

i'm not saying that, never did.....and this is meant for anyone who has been critical or "expressed their harsh views" in the past few days.......sit back and relax, i know we are all exciting for this much anticipated release, but instead of critiquing bit by bit of what the manual says or what the teaser trailer involves or what the dev's have posted, wait until you get to see it with your own eyes....but that's my honest opinion, and i am just throwing it out there....

"game on."

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 08-28-2008, 04:34 PM

Guys - keep the topics of conversation to the purpose of the thread and keep the discussion civil - I'd hate to lock up a 46 page thread.

**AREM117** · 08-28-2008, 05:06 PM

These changes are phenomenal! Teamwork and realism, I like it. Cant wait to try commanding.
Although the only thing that I may have a problem with is the kit limitations but ill see when it comes out.