PR Dev Journal. - Page 47

**Ferris Bueller** · 08-28-2008, 06:29 PM

All of the commentary over the saw and grenadier kits saddens me. Remember where I specifically said that tactics are going to play a much larger role? This includes keeping vital roles alive and covering your six so your saw/GL doesnt disappear. If it does, you have only yourself to blame. Remember gents, TG stands for TACTICAL Gamer.

starstriker1 · 08-28-2008, 06:40 PM

I'm suspecting that capturing enemy limited kits will be an important strategy... not only do they lose the kit, but they have to kill you before that 10 minute timer kicks in! In the meantime, your team gets an extra LMG on the field...

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger · 08-28-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

# The spotting system has been overhauled. Automatic spotting is practically gone. Squad leaders can send a contact report to the commander. The commander can confirm those reports and place markers on the map to warn the rest of the team

SL dont use the spotting system now anyway so this is good, hopefully people will get it

Weapons need to be reloaded manually

hardcore, good squads will reload after a firefight anyway

# Bunkers & Fire bases do not resupply soldiers and vehicles anymore

extreme but i guess its good for reducing bf2 ammo spam

Rally points can be placed anywhere. They are overrun and destroyed if 3 enemies get close to them or if 6 squad members die in their vincinity

well extreme and it might backfire

but its a change that will be self controlling i guess especially with the 3 hostiles thing, hats off to who coded that

# Grenade launchers need to be fired at targets at least 30-40m from the shooter or the grenade will not detonate

totally gutted, one of my favourite kits since back from when they introduced deviation changes to it. I think 40m is a bit extreme since it only fires about 300m max or 100m effectively/quickly. It was so great for house clearing and round corners but a nerf was not unexpected

# The enemy tickets are not displayed

great idea, so simple it might just work out a few problems

# The main gun in any armored vehicle has a 30s usage delay

gutted again since (imo) 1 man in an apc using it defensivly often does better then 2 who rush without support, but maybe the coaxial and movement of the turret still works more quickly then that?

# Soldiers start to bleed out when their health drops below 75%

extreme, not sure why this is in but hopefully it plays good

# Insurgents can be arrested using the restrainer or the shotgun

shotgun arrest, excellent. Should be good, all shotguns in game are still slug only right?

# Limited kits have been reduced in number and are only reallocated every 10 minutes

Should bring worth to the medic class again and peoples respect for dying. Also as an extra positive it should stop people hopping straight back into another vehicle after respawn, so more respect for proper vehicle use. If I was designing a map, I'd put a few 9 min respawn vehicles in just for that reason

I might be thinking too far ahead there though, not sure if crewman or pilot counts as a limited kit in this sense, still theres hope it might

Thanks for the summary Ghostdog. Alot of these changes I did not expect and show more great thinking.

Plus engineer have no c4 now ?

**Mnam** · 08-28-2008, 09:19 PM

i love that new health change where u start bleeding at 75% becuase now medics are going to be needed more than before and rambos will not survive for very long so staying with your squad is going to play a key part in 0.8

Pistolfied · 08-28-2008, 09:41 PM

No ammo from the FOB's is crazy I think. It should at least hold a small ammo supply in it since the crates needed to deploy it usually disappear after 5 minutes (which is stupid) even if they are full of ammo still. FOB's not having ammo for tanks and such though is the right idea I think since I doubt a base like that would have 120mm shells. The FOB's in PR are just far too small.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-28-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittykatnub

No ammo from the FOB's is crazy I think. It should at least hold a small ammo supply in it since the crates needed to deploy it usually disappear after 5 minutes (which is stupid) even if they are full of ammo still. FOB's not having ammo for tanks and such though is the right idea I think since I doubt a base like that would have 120mm shells. The FOB's in PR are just far too small.

i think this idea came possibly from the enemy being able to resupply off of it, even when it was down to its base (the other team couldn't spawn).

make sure not to run over or destroy the supply crates, and/or place the build marker on one, and it should be all set.......

ReaperMAC · 08-28-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

i think this idea came possibly from the enemy being able to resupply off of it, even when it was down to its base (the other team couldn't spawn).

It was made like this to prevent HAT spam where one guy could just sit ontop of a firebase/bunker with infinite ammo and just waste people. Very arcadish, same with C4 with the engineers too. You would see people charging armored vehicles with C4 out and stuff.

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger · 08-29-2008, 12:17 AM

I just had to check about supply crates, trucks can drop 2 now. Otherwise it would have slowed things right down while they went back to base to get another! (in order to build)

Also there is a new supply crate vehicles can drop, groovy but no more surfing ammo caches ?

As well as new maps, anyone know if we shall be missing any of the present ones? I'd be fine if they retained them all but I guess we shall lose a few

The bad thing about no engineer c4 is this is a very influential change, much more then tanks being destroyed or not. I guess its good bunkers can be killed by anyone now but bridges, etc will be less vunerable.
So now I think spec op kits cant be thrown away like snipers often are or the entire team will suffer from it imo

starstriker1 · 08-29-2008, 12:31 AM

Yeah, demolitions is going to become a more important job... and it'll be much more difficult to remove enemy emplacements permanently.

**AREM117** · 08-29-2008, 12:58 AM

Where does it say that there is no C4 on engineers.

**Ferris Bueller** · 08-29-2008, 01:01 AM

It doesnt, but there isnt.

BigGaayAl · 08-29-2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by google

Yes, the new limits on kits worries me greatly. However, this will push squads to core kits forcing them to use more advanced tactics rather than relying on a LMG or GL to do all the dirty work.

I would say that the tactics needed without an MG, will not be advanced, but rather will be world war one tactics, the last war afaik where squads did not come equipped with portable MG's, or something like a Bar. Sorry Randy

.

I've been struggling with the degredation of the LMG role in the last 2 versions. All I ever got from the devs on this, is basically "it's fine if you stay alive". That is great for 1337 players, as many of them are, but I most enjoy playing with players of any skill level that play in a way that tries to mimick RL tactics, and adds immersion to the game. I want to be able to have a good time with new players too, as long as they have the right attitude, regardless of their hand-eye coordination skills. I think the 'stay alive' argument , is flawed.

It is noticeable that the players that worry about this, are one of the few that still like to experiment with fireteams and organised tactics in PR. At the moment it is by far more effective to just yell "someone get a L-AT" then trying to have person x be the AT-soldier. Does every RL soldier know how to fire an AT4? Is every soldier proficient with all the different weapons? Or do they all have their very specific role? I simply don't know.

I'm looking forward to the new maps mostly and the new gameplay elements. I think PR as a whole has been improving on many fields with leaps and bounds over the consecutive versions. In fact, for me it is the best multiplayer FPS experience in it's genre that is out there today, overshadowing by content, realism and attention to detail all the 50$ games that retailers have published since BF2. On the other hand, I do regret that the element of realistic squad organisation has been deteriorating due to the kit limiting system. In the end the system is made to force the bad apples to properly use kits.

I conclude hoping that other changes like the reported slower gameplay and the longer wounded time will help to keep an organised squad organised for more time then was possible in 0.75. Otherwise I will protest by playing bandage-petanque at the RP untill I can get the LMG in my squad

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KORdaemon · 08-29-2008, 04:02 AM

lol i was reloading weapons manually already, it just felt more... real i guess. the only thing that manual reloading is horrible for is GLs and other single shot weapons, it makes it very frustrating but you get over it after a while.

i hope they threw on iron sights with the shotties but i guess that's overpowering somewhat...

i'm happy they got rid of c4 engineers, the spec-ops kit was more like decoration than anything else the way it was earlier.

Top Cat AJA · 08-29-2008, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

It is noticeable that the players that worry about this, are one of the few that still like to experiment with fireteams and organised tactics in PR.

I do regret that the element of realistic squad organisation has been deteriorating due to the kit limiting system. In the end the system is made to force the bad apples to properly use kits.
.

Very well put. Your whole post was actually all very well put....cant really quote whole thing.

BigGaayAl we will just have to make one of our squads main objective (always ongoing) to request, grab, steal, pillage, trick, barter and do everything but clearly obvious tk'ing (you think we can get away with road "accidents" involving LMG wielding players not in our squad?) for but 1 LMG.

Putting aside any possible issues with kits, 0.8 will be brilliance.

**Katanama** · 08-29-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

It is noticeable that the players that worry about this, are one of the few that still like to experiment with fireteams and organised tactics in PR. At the moment it is by far more effective to just yell "someone get a L-AT" then trying to have person x be the AT-soldier. Does every RL soldier know how to fire an AT4? Is every soldier proficient with all the different weapons? Or do they all have their very specific role? I simply don't know.

Everyone is trained on the weapons and then the best at that particular weapon system is made the primary gunner. For example I was just a normal rifleman but I still knew how to operate pretty much any weaponsystem in the company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

In the end the system is made to force the bad apples to properly use kits.

Yep and those bad apples might not learn anything from it anyway. As I see it you have so far only tested it with the testers and they are (the ones I know of) pretty good players. On an normal euro night there is a max of 10 good players on. So this means that you have 10 out of 62 that can live up to the same level of gameplay the testers can that would mean that these 10 might get 2 good squad going but the reast of the squad will not be up to the level of the testers.
If I am leading a squad of public players then it can sometimes be hard to get them to split up so one part attacks form one side the other from the other side or one part provides firesupport while the other moves onto the flag.