PR Dev Journal. - Page 6

**caffeine** · 03-17-2008, 01:50 PM

in my experience, the supp effects don't kick in until about 2-3m. i was using a pistol. maybe it varies by gun.

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger · 03-17-2008, 02:52 PM

The range on the grenades and rockets is massive for the suppression effect. Im actually not totally against it, it doesnt last as long as 2 seconds or so it seems and I guess I always ducked down anyway so its not effected me so much.

I can imagine it does make medic jobs much harder though, coverfire needed maybe?
I think medics should get something like no delay on throwing patches

billyinorganic · 03-17-2008, 03:12 PM

Has anyone here ever been shot at from an automatic rifle while behind cover in real life?

I imagine it picks up a lot of dust, but would it really impair your vision so much?

Not to say that it should not be in PR, for it suits the game play. But just curious about reality.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 03-17-2008, 03:57 PM

Never been shot at...thankfully

The suppression effect is NOT to cause loss of vision - it is to make it so you put your head down/seek cover. I would image that if you're under real fire from automatic weapons, that is pretty much the first thing you're going to do. There is no other way to "code" that type of reaction into the game other than to make it so that you can't "see" clearly - no point in returning fire if you can't aim.

I think it is a very well done effect and makes suppression work much better than previously - the end justifies the means in this case.

**Ferris Bueller** · 03-17-2008, 04:32 PM

No delay on throwing patches doesnt help. Covering fire, unless it's extremely well placed isnt going to make a difference. The problem is that you cant SEE. With the initial release of 0.7, the medic's job became 4x as hard. No more HUD, no more ability to have any kind of directional bearing on where downed friendlies are. Ok, I adapt and learn to spot bodies manually a lot better. Now, with the suppression effects, I cant even SEE THE BODIES!

I posted about it in the 6th forum and I'll repeat it here: the medic is the ONLY class that is EXPECTED to break cover and save people. If any other class runs into the middle of a firefight, everyone thinks hes just being stupid and wasting his life. If a medic does it, hes doing his freaking job. Yet somehow, the medic is the class that takes the biggest strategic hit with seemingly every new patch that comes out.

You've all played alongside me in game and you know that my crazy ass will run into the middle of an ungodly firefight, revive 4 people and run out to heal them all. It's my job. I keep people alive. Bu now? Breaking cover alone is a chore. If i'm hiding next to a wall and a bullet pops on it, half of my screen goes black, my FPS drops to 50 and the rest is fuzzy. If I do manage to get out without having my vision FUBAR'd, all it takes is one guy with ANY gun to start popping rounds NEAR me and I can no longer see what i'm doing. It's ridiculous. The old suppression effects, with the midlly blurred screen was plenty, maybe couple that with the black screen for crit/death. But the whole "no peripheral vision and the rest looks like someone just hit me with a baseball bat" anytime a bullet hits NEAR you? Thats a death sentence for medics.

So yeah, the end may justify the means FOR YOU, but then again, you dont play medic that much.

**SamO** · 03-17-2008, 04:51 PM

While your argument is valid, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one. And because the BF2 engine cannot cater to such events as which you're describing, i highly doubt they can do anything about it. although, they are trying to improve it with :

Quote:

1. Only happens with 5.56 and higher caliber weapons (FH2 did this so we know it can be done)

2. Only "activates" after the round has traveled 10-20m (I think we can do this)

3. Is triggered when bullets go overhead (I think we can do this also)

Says one of the devs

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 03-17-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

No delay on throwing patches doesnt help. Covering fire, unless it's extremely well placed isnt going to make a difference. The problem is that you cant SEE. With the initial release of 0.7, the medic's job became 4x as hard. No more HUD, no more ability to have any kind of directional bearing on where downed friendlies are. Ok, I adapt and learn to spot bodies manually a lot better. Now, with the suppression effects, I cant even SEE THE BODIES!

I posted about it in the 6th forum and I'll repeat it here: the medic is the ONLY class that is EXPECTED to break cover and save people. If any other class runs into the middle of a firefight, everyone thinks hes just being stupid and wasting his life. If a medic does it, hes doing his freaking job. Yet somehow, the medic is the class that takes the biggest strategic hit with seemingly every new patch that comes out.

You've all played alongside me in game and you know that my crazy ass will run into the middle of an ungodly firefight, revive 4 people and run out to heal them all. It's my job. I keep people alive. Bu now? Breaking cover alone is a chore. If i'm hiding next to a wall and a bullet pops on it, half of my screen goes black, my FPS drops to 50 and the rest is fuzzy. If I do manage to get out without having my vision FUBAR'd, all it takes is one guy with ANY gun to start popping rounds NEAR me and I can no longer see what i'm doing. It's ridiculous. The old suppression effects, with the midlly blurred screen was plenty, maybe couple that with the black screen for crit/death. But the whole "no peripheral vision and the rest looks like someone just hit me with a baseball bat" anytime a bullet hits NEAR you? Thats a death sentence for medics.

So yeah, the end may justify the means FOR YOU, but then again, you dont play medic that much.

True. I guess smoke won't work either - all the enemy has to do is to randomly fire into it and you'll be "suppressed".

So what is the happy medium then?

On one side is a kit that now cannot do it's intended job at all, and on the other is the SAW gunner lay down fire over a ditch with enemy lying prone and the enemy pop up, take a shot, HS the SAW?

Perhaps they need to return the mini-map for the medic, or give directionals to downed teammates so you can still move toward them, suppressed or not. I don't know the right answer to find a balance.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 03-17-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldirti

While your argument is valid, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one. And because the BF2 engine cannot cater to such events as which you're describing, i highly doubt they can do anything about it. although, they are trying to improve it with :

2. Only "activates" after the round has traveled 10-20m (I think we can do this)

Says one of the devs

#2 is not in place - I suppressed myself last night putting a move marker at my feet and accidentally firing my rifle.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 03-17-2008, 05:21 PM

I think that the suppression effect will do away with the crazy running in open areas.
This effect will help using squad based tactics that will aid in use of the surrounding environment, i.e. building corners, hills, trees, etc....maybe we can develop some real squad tactics, 2x2 cover formation, breaching of doors, etc, that SWAT teams use on daily basis along with how our soldiers use their own cqb tacticts in the middle east today.

its going to be tricky but in the end, when theres a saw gunner firing down on you, you have to give hell back...i feel for u ferris, thats why the medic, is going to be the most coveted kit, we are going to have to learn to adapt to the medics and their advantages and disadvantages and use the surroundings to circumvent the bullets whizzing by and above us.

Elwenil · 03-17-2008, 05:28 PM

If it does away with the running in open areas, then several maps will need a lot of attention and changes. Imagine trying to retake Gardens on EJOD if you can't even make it there. Should make Mestia and Fools Road a lot more interesting though.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 03-17-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwenil

If it does away with the running in open areas, then several maps will need a lot of attention and changes. Imagine trying to retake Gardens on EJOD if you can't even make it there. Should make Mestia and Fools Road a lot more interesting though.

thats also why i am upset they removed flashbangs. They would be perfect in those types of situations, oh well.....we are all going to have to adapt.

**SamO** · 03-17-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

#2 is not in place - I suppressed myself last night putting a move marker at my feet and accidentally firing my rifle.

He said they could implement it maybe, but right now the suppression effect isn't refined, and those 3 things are how they're going to try and refine it for the next patch.

kilroy0097 · 03-18-2008, 04:05 AM

More people better start coordinating with each other. Infantry Squads moving up with Tank support. When you have a large open area, tank moves up first while infantry squad gets ready. Tank takes out initial contacts and then launches that rather large smoke screen. When it's deployed efficiently tank moves to cover while infantry squad moves up to next hill line.

The tools for excellent teamwork are there if people would just use them.

**llPANCHOll** · 03-19-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

No delay on throwing patches doesnt help. Covering fire, unless it's extremely well placed isnt going to make a difference. The problem is that you cant SEE. With the initial release of 0.7, the medic's job became 4x as hard. No more HUD, no more ability to have any kind of directional bearing on where downed friendlies are. Ok, I adapt and learn to spot bodies manually a lot better. Now, with the suppression effects, I cant even SEE THE BODIES!

I posted about it in the 6th forum and I'll repeat it here: the medic is the ONLY class that is EXPECTED to break cover and save people. If any other class runs into the middle of a firefight, everyone thinks hes just being stupid and wasting his life. If a medic does it, hes doing his freaking job. Yet somehow, the medic is the class that takes the biggest strategic hit with seemingly every new patch that comes out.

You've all played alongside me in game and you know that my crazy ass will run into the middle of an ungodly firefight, revive 4 people and run out to heal them all. It's my job. I keep people alive. Bu now? Breaking cover alone is a chore. If i'm hiding next to a wall and a bullet pops on it, half of my screen goes black, my FPS drops to 50 and the rest is fuzzy. If I do manage to get out without having my vision FUBAR'd, all it takes is one guy with ANY gun to start popping rounds NEAR me and I can no longer see what i'm doing. It's ridiculous. The old suppression effects, with the midlly blurred screen was plenty, maybe couple that with the black screen for crit/death. But the whole "no peripheral vision and the rest looks like someone just hit me with a baseball bat" anytime a bullet hits NEAR you? Thats a death sentence for medics.

So yeah, the end may justify the means FOR YOU, but then again, you dont play medic that much.

Makes me think.. I havnt ever been in combat, but when a human life is in the balance, people are usually much more courageous.. A medic will sprint across fire to an injured comrade faster than a rifleman will post up in the middle of a street trying to be Rambo..

Ferris makes a good point..
I am curious, could the engine be coded to "NOT SUPRESS" if a medic is holding Tampax or Defibs.. or only Surpress him in the old blurry way???
But still supress him if he is holding his Rifle, so people dont start using medic kits just to circumvent the Supression!

**Mix0lydian** · 03-19-2008, 08:49 PM

there's a reason why Marines love their Corpsmen...