Grenade spam in 0.7

**Nero** · 01-05-2008, 03:29 PM

I've noticed that nade spamming has become much more common in 0.7, which I'm thinking is a result of the gun deviation problems and people find it easier to throw a nade than expose yourself while aiming.

On seeing an enemy within nade range, it is easier to go prone and spam nades at their position. Because squads are sticking closer together there is an even better chance of killing someone.

Is nade usage now more unrealistic, now that bullet deviation has been made more realistic?

Maybe some changes to nades are needed:
Reduce number of grenades per soldier?
Limit kits with grenades (assault only?)
Lengthen time to draw and throw a grenade?
Reduce throwing accuracy?
Have to crouch or stand to throw nade?
Unable to resupply nades off ammo bags (only crates and CO assets)?

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 01-05-2008, 03:40 PM

Squads shouldnt be sticking closer together, I know I wont be following that order personally

Reduce throwing accuracy?

Seems most feasible but you cant make it anything like rifle fire is, its not that hard to throw something even if you are in the middle of running

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 01-05-2008, 03:46 PM

Hold on - now we're going to try to get the dev's to make soldiers throw like girls (no offense to girls). What do we want next, accuracy of knives reduced?

What is wrong with hitting a target with grenades? It is a valid tactic that reduces your exposure to fire, has area-effect damage, and can cause the enemy to keep back or keep their heads down. Use it to cover your advancing fire team on their flank.

Spam would be standing on a supply crate or in a bunker/firebase and chucking grenades as fast as the can reload.

**llPANCHOll** · 01-05-2008, 05:50 PM

yeah.. Im havng a hard enough time with the rifle acuracy.. Fix the nade sounds IMO but dont mess with my accuracy. I can see it now trying to chuck a nade over the wall, it drops back on my side, killing me, my SL, the Medic, the HAT guy, and Im stuck saying.. SORRY guys! My Bad!!

LOL.. that kind of stuff happens enough already...

Elwenil · 01-05-2008, 06:04 PM

Yeah, don't get me started on the weird grenades where you throw it over a wall and you see it arc up over the wall, then hit something invisible directly above the wall and then bounces back at me from some point lower at the top of the wall. I will never understand that. Reminds me of some of the invisible walls in RavenShield's custom maps.

Grenades are fine and the time it takes to throw one cuts down on any spamming. If there is a whole squad behind a ridge tossing them then it can seem like they are spamming, but that can easily be done in real combat so I see it as a useful and valid tactic.

**Nero** · 01-05-2008, 07:03 PM

Oh I agree that throwing grenades at enemies in cover (behind ridge, in building etc) is a valid and realistic tactic.

The kind of situation I'm talking about is where you wouldn't realistically throw a grenade, such as if you and and enemy happened upon each other in the open. To me it, I think this has increased a lot more in 0.7 compared to 0.613.

I have to admit I've been guilty of using this tactic simply because I don't trust my rifle to kill the guy fast enough, because it's taking 5+ shots to get enough successful hits to kill someone. In comparison, their is very little delay to throwing your first nade compared to aiming your firearm. And you can keep run around dodging bullets and keep throwing more nades instead of remaining the stationary target you would be if you were to aim your rifle.

With no cover:
Rifleman = remain still for 1-2 secs to fire each round-> only 50-75% of shots actually hit (guesstimate) -> need 2-3 hits to kill.
Grenade = run and dodge around throwing grenades -> throw is quite accurate-> instant kill.
Grenade guy wins...

Personally, I would prefer if the delay to throw your 1st nade was increased, and you are required to be crouching or standing still to throw it accurately... anyway that's just my little rant.

fuzzhead · 01-05-2008, 09:14 PM

Realistically most modern armies have a doctrine of NADE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM hehe

but realism shouldnt be the only factor.... IMO there is an excessive amount of grenades on the smaller maps, but what do you expect, its a small map...

I think the idea of not being able to throw a grenade while prone is a good one...

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 01-05-2008, 09:33 PM

It could be slower when prone or shorter range, firing a HAT while prone seems to be a bad idea I've figured out

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 01-05-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

I think the idea of not being able to throw a grenade while prone is a good one...

Stop yourself, Fuzz!! Come on - now we have to expose ourselves to fire to throw a grenade? I can throw a baseball a pretty good distance lying on the ground (you should have seen the play I made at shortstop this fall, but I digress). Seriously - don't you guys dare do this! Insanity! Baaahhhhh!

fuzzhead · 01-05-2008, 11:19 PM

lying on your back/side in shorts and tee is different than lying on your belly with 80 pounds of equipment on your person and your rifle in your hands at the ready to fire position, disposable hero :P

me saying its a good idea doesnt mean its gonna be in, i just think its a good way to cut back that kind of unrealistic habit on every enemy contact (drop prone, toss a few nades)... at very least the range should be greatly reduced while prone at least.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 01-06-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

lying on your back/side in shorts and tee is different than lying on your belly with 80 pounds of equipment on your person and your rifle in your hands at the ready to fire position, disposable hero :P

me saying its a good idea doesnt mean its gonna be in, i just think its a good way to cut back that kind of unrealistic habit on every enemy contact (drop prone, toss a few nades)... at very least the range should be greatly reduced while prone at least.

Maybe I have 80 lbs. of beer on my back when I play ball (and I usually do), but that is beside the point.

Ok, i could live with reduced range while prone. That is actually a good idea - but don't take it away entirely!! Pleeeeeassseee! It's the only way I can eliminate threats now that I can't hit the bastages with my G3! LOL

BTW - I still love PR!! Best freaking game ever! My addiction to it has grown 10-fold since .7 - EVIL DEVS sucking my life away!

**Nero** · 01-06-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

lying on your back/side in shorts and tee is different than lying on your belly with 80 pounds of equipment on your person and your rifle in your hands at the ready to fire position, disposable hero :P

me saying its a good idea doesnt mean its gonna be in, i just think its a good way to cut back that kind of unrealistic habit on every enemy contact (drop prone, toss a few nades)... at very least the range should be greatly reduced while prone at least.

I suppose this isn't a big issue compared to the CO asset bug and other stuff you Dev's are working on, but good to hear someone at least taking notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

Pleeeeeassseee! It's the only way I can eliminate threats now that I can't hit the bastages with my G3! LOL

Aha! You admit it too! I think we've all been guilty of that recently when the darn gun just don't shoot like it used to. http://splodetv.com/video/horrible-aim

**O=T-M-A-N=O** · 01-06-2008, 07:04 AM

I haven't played .07 yet, but I first thought the lack of mini map would make the use of grenades less than more. I will really be interested in seeing if your comments hold true tonight (playing tonight).

Stalin1878 · 01-06-2008, 07:09 AM

So the rifles got nurfed and now you want the nades to be useless also? Maybe in the next version they should just give each soldier a A4 sheet of paper and run around paper cut the enemy to death?

[q]And you can keep run around dodging bullets and keep throwing more nades instead of remaining the stationary target you would be if you were to aim your rifle.[/q]

That sounds a lot like you might be bunny hopping

If someone is throwing nades at you, what do you do? I run up to them and shoot them in the face, problem solved....

**llPANCHOll** · 01-06-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalin1878

If someone is throwing nades at you, what do you do? I run up to them and shoot them in the face, problem solved....

correction.. you run up to them and wait 3 seconds for your sights to settle down then shoot them in the face..

01-05-2008, 03:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nero Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 36 Posts: 547	Grenade spam in 0.7 I've noticed that nade spamming has become much more common in 0.7, which I'm thinking is a result of the gun deviation problems and people find it easier to throw a nade than expose yourself while aiming. On seeing an enemy within nade range, it is easier to go prone and spam nades at their position. Because squads are sticking closer together there is an even better chance of killing someone. Is nade usage now more unrealistic, now that bullet deviation has been made more realistic? Maybe some changes to nades are needed: Reduce number of grenades per soldier? Limit kits with grenades (assault only?) Lengthen time to draw and throw a grenade? Reduce throwing accuracy? Have to crouch or stand to throw nade? Unable to resupply nades off ammo bags (only crates and CO assets)? __________________ Last edited by Nero; 01-05-2008 at 06:16 PM. Reason: or... does gun accuracy just need to be 'corrected'...

01-05-2008, 03:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sabre_Tooth_Tigger Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: eurasia Posts: 2,257	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 Squads shouldnt be sticking closer together, I know I wont be following that order personally Reduce throwing accuracy? Seems most feasible but you cant make it anything like rifle fire is, its not that hard to throw something even if you are in the middle of running __________________ *WWII German infantry weapons in detail*

01-05-2008, 03:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
d1sp0sabl3H3r0 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Suburban Chicago Age: 42 Posts: 1,476	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 Hold on - now we're going to try to get the dev's to make soldiers throw like girls (no offense to girls). What do we want next, accuracy of knives reduced? What is wrong with hitting a target with grenades? It is a valid tactic that reduces your exposure to fire, has area-effect damage, and can cause the enemy to keep back or keep their heads down. Use it to cover your advancing fire team on their flank. Spam would be standing on a supply crate or in a bunker/firebase and chucking grenades as fast as the can reload. __________________ \|TG-X\|d1sp0sabl3 It's all MY fault, so deal with it! TG-X \| PR Server Rules \| TG SOPs \| Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Contact an Admin Expand your gaming horizons - TGU \| How to nominate your teammates for a ribbon \| Thinking of putting on TG tags? READ THIS FIRST!!!! The TG Primer To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

01-05-2008, 05:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
llPANCHOll Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, Ok Age: 37 Posts: 915	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 yeah.. Im havng a hard enough time with the rifle acuracy.. Fix the nade sounds IMO but dont mess with my accuracy. I can see it now trying to chuck a nade over the wall, it drops back on my side, killing me, my SL, the Medic, the HAT guy, and Im stuck saying.. SORRY guys! My Bad!! LOL.. that kind of stuff happens enough already...

01-05-2008, 06:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Elwenil Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Covington, VA USA Age: 34 Posts: 1,226	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 Yeah, don't get me started on the weird grenades where you throw it over a wall and you see it arc up over the wall, then hit something invisible directly above the wall and then bounces back at me from some point lower at the top of the wall. I will never understand that. Reminds me of some of the invisible walls in RavenShield's custom maps. Grenades are fine and the time it takes to throw one cuts down on any spamming. If there is a whole squad behind a ridge tossing them then it can seem like they are spamming, but that can easily be done in real combat so I see it as a useful and valid tactic. __________________ \|TG\|Elwenil A vote for Obama is change we can believe in? So was the last ice age, but that don't make it good.

01-05-2008, 07:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nero Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 36 Posts: 547	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 Oh I agree that throwing grenades at enemies in cover (behind ridge, in building etc) is a valid and realistic tactic. The kind of situation I'm talking about is where you wouldn't realistically throw a grenade, such as if you and and enemy happened upon each other in the open. To me it, I think this has increased a lot more in 0.7 compared to 0.613. I have to admit I've been guilty of using this tactic simply because I don't trust my rifle to kill the guy fast enough, because it's taking 5+ shots to get enough successful hits to kill someone. In comparison, their is very little delay to throwing your first nade compared to aiming your firearm. And you can keep run around dodging bullets and keep throwing more nades instead of remaining the stationary target you would be if you were to aim your rifle. With no cover: Rifleman = remain still for 1-2 secs to fire each round-> only 50-75% of shots actually hit (guesstimate) -> need 2-3 hits to kill. Grenade = run and dodge around throwing grenades -> throw is quite accurate-> instant kill. Grenade guy wins... Personally, I would prefer if the delay to throw your 1st nade was increased, and you are required to be crouching or standing still to throw it accurately... anyway that's just my little rant. __________________

01-05-2008, 09:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
fuzzhead Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 545	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 Realistically most modern armies have a doctrine of NADE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM hehe but realism shouldnt be the only factor.... IMO there is an excessive amount of grenades on the smaller maps, but what do you expect, its a small map... I think the idea of not being able to throw a grenade while prone is a good one... __________________

01-05-2008, 09:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sabre_Tooth_Tigger Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: eurasia Posts: 2,257	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 It could be slower when prone or shorter range, firing a HAT while prone seems to be a bad idea I've figured out __________________ *WWII German infantry weapons in detail*

01-05-2008, 11:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
fuzzhead Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 545	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 lying on your back/side in shorts and tee is different than lying on your belly with 80 pounds of equipment on your person and your rifle in your hands at the ready to fire position, disposable hero :P me saying its a good idea doesnt mean its gonna be in, i just think its a good way to cut back that kind of unrealistic habit on every enemy contact (drop prone, toss a few nades)... at very least the range should be greatly reduced while prone at least. __________________

01-06-2008, 07:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
O=T-M-A-N=O Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 311	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 I haven't played .07 yet, but I first thought the lack of mini map would make the use of grenades less than more. I will really be interested in seeing if your comments hold true tonight (playing tonight). __________________ \|TG-E1st\|_TMAN Project Reality Planning world domination the E1st way Help keep TG realistic - read and follow the rules Server Rules and SOP / Ribbon Nominations

01-06-2008, 07:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
Stalin1878 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somerset, England Age: 27 Posts: 44	Re: Grenade spam in 0.7 So the rifles got nurfed and now you want the nades to be useless also? Maybe in the next version they should just give each soldier a A4 sheet of paper and run around paper cut the enemy to death? [q]And you can keep run around dodging bullets and keep throwing more nades instead of remaining the stationary target you would be if you were to aim your rifle.[/q] That sounds a lot like you might be bunny hopping If someone is throwing nades at you, what do you do? I run up to them and shoot them in the face, problem solved....

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