machowner

The difference is mines kill while the bridge is just putting a stop to traffic.

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Delta*RandyShugart*

i agree with soccer, as it being against the rules/camping a main base and non-tg like.

Can one on operation phoenix or any other TG map put a mine down in front of either main base? No, then why should it be allowed on fools road or any of the new maps? Just because they are new doesn't mean the rules don't apply.

Fools Road isn't a Insurgency Map. Its an AAS map. Yes you can blow the bridges in
al basrah because its an insurgency map...but fools road isn't........But that is my honest opinion, I am not an admin, just a member of TG.

Delta*RandyShugart*

whining? PrivateVonLugen, you shouldn't complain about people whining.

Ferris Bueller

Guys, let me make something very clear here: it has been long established that killing vehicles as they leave the UCB is still considered spawn camping. This is especially true on fools road on the british side. The british have to go through a narrow and inescapable corridor that ends just past village. Sitting at village with a TOW or HAT or an RPG is completely out of bounds. Just because it's the next CP up doesnt give you license to camp the only exit. The same goes fro blowing the bridge, as discussed. Blow it and leave. However, planting your C4 and then waiting for a vehicle to be on the bridge to blow it is also a no-no. Mining the bridge is a no-no. Are any of these hard to understand?

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

The insurgents dont own any flags, its obviously a totally seperate type of play

The argument 'its war so we should be able to do anything' is pretty lame imo, the reason this tactic is so effective is because its not real, its a game with flaws.

For the sake of fair play just leave the attacks on enemies till they reach at least the first flag



Half way is marked in pink

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WWII German infantry weapons in detail

snooggums

Why couldn't you sit at Village with a HAT or TOW and hose vehicles (when they enter H6)? It's a capable flag and as long as you did not direct fire towards their main the vehicles would still have to pass through Village and you could achieve the same results, and while it seems crappy, they are supposedly 'maintaining the flag' area as represented by the AAS system.

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stickyjeans69

Agreeable, Sitting at Village and camping the UCB are NOT the same thing, Clearing village is as easy as 1 squad walking trhough slaying the HAT man and the tanks advancing. its a perfectly valid tactic, Sitting at the bridge however and killing them as they move by the UCB/Bridge I think is out of line.

It's very easy to see (in real life) that a group of militia sit on top of the hills over Village not far away from a british Base with a "Stolen" Anti Tank weapon waiting to use it against a challenger or scimitar

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fuzzhead

Militia dont get HAT anyways....

Donagel

One point I like'd to make is that its not exactly fun gameplay if the British are now going to be required to leave people at their main base for the entire game to guard a bridge. I know its realistic, and lord knows I'd follow orders, but given the length of the game, it would get REALLY tedious having to defend a single bridge for the entire game against the threat of an assault. You are basically having to defend an UCB, which is kind of defeats the purpose.

I think I was on Fools Road for 2 hours last night(having entered after it started and left before it finished). How many times would the bridge be actually threatened? Yet, due to its importanced, you'd have to stay there the whole game. Don;t get me wrong, I love defending, it's just that you really would have little to do for EXTREMELY long periods of time. TG or not, thats just not an enjoyable way to spend an evening.

That said, for gameplay reason the bridge should be made non-destructible or a non-destructible means of leaving the base needs to be created.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken

Ferris Bueller

Heres why you cant sit at village with a tow: the british cant get out. Driving straight past village is the ONLY way out of british main. The hills on either side of village immediately after the bridge are too steep for jeeps or APCs to climb over, making a lateral escape route impossible.The only way out is to pass through village and come to the fork just past it and move north or west from there. Now, IN village, there is some low ground on the sides of the road that can be used for a 5-10m clearance of the road, but not an escape route. So I could maybe understand putting some mines down. But a TOW, stolen HAT, RPG? Not a chance.

It's not a matter of grid distance or the fact that youre sitting at the next flag, as that has also been long established as something that doesnt matter. Ask yourself what you think an admin would do to you if you sat at the Village flag (or the hills directly next to village) on Al Kufrah and shoot every vehicle that comes over the bridge from british main. After all, you're several grids away from main, you're sitting at the next flag, so it should be ok, right? WRONG. Ask any of the admins what the policy IS and HAS BEEN for a long time and they'll tell you "get away from the main".

Bottom line is this, as I explained last night: If you are in a position that is preventing vehicles from escaping the area of the UCB because they have no other alternate route to take than to drive right through your trap, then you ARE basecamping.

And no, they are not "maintaining the flag area" at village when the militia is down to their last two flags, making village 4 flags out of play. They're being a detriment to their team and causing undue problems.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

TeflonDon

If we're talking about the road being a bottleneck out of the main base, then there is not a ton of difference between camping the bridge itself, the little crackshacks just north of the bridge, the village flag, or the hill overlooking the road where it forks right above village.

Of course, once across the bridge, the infantry squads can all hang a left into the forest and proceed on foot - I will concede this is an advantage.

But with a competent Militia squad or two camping that hill overlooking the fork, there is almost the same effect as camping the bridge, where the vehicles come to a stand still, and infrantry are faced with the task of climbing uphill to clear it out. This isnt much different than a squad having to cross the river, climb the hill, and clear out the bridge.

I remember the other night when there were all sorts of LAT's up on that hill, taking out every commander truck coming through, and doing serious damage to the APC's etc. You had to send two trucks through to get one all the way. And at least twice there was a milita truck with the .50 cal (is that gun a .50?) Up there just shredding everyhing that moved.

I am by no means advocating camping the bridge and taking out anything crossing it - that seems to have been agreed upon as being off limits, and I will be the first to report a violation until i hear otherwise.

But just to throw it out there, is drawing an imaginary line at the bridge not futile? The enemy can line any part of that road up to the fork with some AT mines, and there is the same effect. Transport stops, engineers have to come out and crank their wrenches, and it's ok to camp the mines and take out anything that rolls up.

It seems like it's an all or nothing problem. Done right, I imagine the MEC can control every inch of the road of the whole map, and it's a suicide mission for the Brits the whole time. Either the whole road up to (and including) the fork needs to be prohibited until Village is cappable, or none of it. The brits have the weapons advantage, the MEC have positional advantage.

The bridge can be easily defended from the main with an apc - zoom in and shoot anyone trying to lay a mine / c4. Or with a dedicated squad, even just a 3-man.

If someone is camping village, it can be cleared out by infrantry before armor rolls through.

If someone is camping the hill (which I would argue is the most vulnerable spot: the hill coupled with enemy armor on either side of the fork), infrantry can clear it out.

So drawing the line is putting off the inevitable. Writing this I see that Village could be a spring board - drop a bunker and move on. But are the MEC then prohibited from attacking that bunker, and camping the road coming out of it? At what point are they allowed to ambush "fool's road", one of the main points of the map?

It's called Fool's road for a reason - and other than the rule currently in place which artifically changes the balance a little, the MEC should be able to hold off the invaders however possible.

Tear this argument apart - I dont claim to be an expert.

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TeflonDon

Sorry to write even more, but thinking about it a bit, maybe the map could have been done so that it was an invasion. The mec control all the flags, and the brits have to struggle to get across the bridge and take village. Once village is taken, mec's cant take it back, and they have no reason attack it. There could be a rule that mec can't proceed past a certain point. Hell, have it so that each flag decreases the area the MEC can even enter, where they get the desertion warning.

But as it is, the rule would have to be extended to a little bit past the fork, on both sides, to avoid killing everything coming out of main.

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d1sp0sabl3H3r0

This discussion brings a couple of important facts to light:

1) What is the intent of the mapper and dev team? As Teflon mentions above, it isn't called Fools Road for nothing.
2) I'm not sure that the map is small enough for 32 players (yes, you read that right). Tactics mentioned being required prior to .7 were in fact asset protection and supply line protection. Dedicating a squad to protect supply trucks and their route, at least in my eyes, would be required. Not trying to congratulate myself, but I see this now coming to fruition. Too bad we can't get more than 64 players into the game, because you'd need at least 2 extra squads per side for proper asset protection.
3) At what point anywhere along the road north or west out of the British main is it ok to attack targets? Keep pushing the line back and we're giving the British an unfair advantage. Their weapons are better, they have more armor, do they really need to be allowed to move to Warehouse and the Rail Yard unhindered?

Last night there was complaining about militia infantry near the bridge and village. I gave the admin the names of the players, as I was on the militia side. When I identified the players, one was well west of the bridge, and by well west I mean they were 1 1/2 grids west. The other was in the Village. The rules that were established earlier clearly allowed them to be there as far as I was concerned and as far as they were concerned as well, but they had to back out (I'm speaking strictly on location - I'm not aware of what they were doing because they weren't in my squad and I was too busy fighting to read everything in chat).

I'm not sure the map is perfectly balanced right now, but to handicap the militia side by allowing the Brits essentially a free pass to their first objectives seems a little unfair.

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|TG-X|d1sp0sabl3

Ferris Bueller

The problem we have here is that we have too many people looking to "bend" the rules. If we say no taking assets out on the bridge, they'll be taken out by some smartass who shoots them just as they come off the bridge, then says "you werent on the bridge, you're fair game". If we say you have to be back behind the fork in the road, vehicles will be taken out at village by a TOW before they can reach the fork and escape because "I was back behind the fork, but I could see the vehicles".

Its a standard of play and I dont see why we only have this problem on this map. On every other map we have, everyone knows to stay the hell away from the main. Nobody ever goes near the main, hell mostly not even near the back flags until they are in play or they're destroying CO assets at the UCB.

So maybe you guys who are all for being able to set up AT positions at village can tell me what the major draw here is, cause i'm obviously too stupid to grasp it. Lets see, the militia have the terrain advantage, stronger vehicular assets (you have tanks. Ever seen a warrior or a scimitar take out a tank? not likely), and two clear ways out of your back flags, making your escape route nice and easy. Yet the militia still feels the need to go camp the british team into their main vehicle-wise. What exactly is it that I'm missing when this is compared with other maps? Or am I missing nothing at all and my initial thought, that we just have too many people trying to bend the rules, is right?

EDIT: To shed some light on disposable's post, I was doing most of the complaining last night and the reason was simple: every time anyone tried to leave british main, we got taken out by a TOW. Both AFSoccer and myself got taken out in vehicles ON THE BRIDGE. The militia had placed mines right at the edge of the bridge in addition (which I managed to avoid), but then was taken out again less than 20m off the bridge by the same people, who had been told to back off. Apparently they thought that a 20m gap from the bridge was enough. They were also blowing the bridge, which is fine, but they were specifically waiting for vehicles to be on the bridge before they blew it.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

Bamboo

And yet you still WON the game. Even with some players using questionable tactics.

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