New SL...need some advice.

Redd_Wiggler · 03-04-2008, 05:51 AM

So, recently i was in an AMAZING squad. everyone was following the SL's orders...who was working with a great commander, and we were controlling the west side of fools road. then the SL got disconnected, and *bam* i was SL. i asked if anyone else wanted it, and they all said they would take it, but i should give it a go. so i did. they were all very supportiuve to my first time...they followed my commands, gave helpful suggestions and were one of the finest squads i ever worked with. ( i would name names, if only i could remember any of them...sorry gents). Needless to say, this gave me great confidence in my leading abilities.

so here is where the problem is: yesterday i came on when all the squads were full...so with my new-found confidence, i started a squad. it quickly filled. BUT every order (it seemed) was second guessed, argued over, complained about...and so on. i got so frustrated, i dis-connected. when i came back about an hour later, it was almost the same thing...but with different people. i dont want it to seem like everything was bad...i did manage to have a map with a great squad in there at one point. (thanx guys...wish i could remember names)...tho the commander had obvioulsy NOT read the manual (kept asking questions that would have been answered if he had) AND sent us ALL the way across the map to assault an eastern target while we were in the middle of an assault on a western target.

so my question is this: how do you deal with insubordinate squad mates with out coming off like a jerk? and how do you deal with a commander who gives, what you think are bad orders? for the record...i asked the commander (who was NOT using a mic by the way) if he REALLY wanted us to break off our assault in the west to assault the east , to which his reply was to repeat the "assault here" command...so trying to be a good SL, we pulled back and re-deployed. by the time we got there, the eastern target had been secured by a squad in jeeps...and we were left running after them and missed the final assault on the remaining target. but thats another story.

**Superfast** · 03-04-2008, 06:36 AM

If those in your squad repeatedly won't follow orders, kick them. This makes room for players that will. If they second-guess you, try reasoning with them whatever the problem is and in the end explain to them that they can leave the squad if they won't listen to you. If all fails, kick them.

If you feel the CO is making a bad call, tell him why. If he repeatedly makes bad calls and isn't answering you, ignore the orders and contact an admin, they will remove the CO.

There are different players, some good and some bad. Good ones are those you end up trying to squad up with, like you described first where you had a great round together. The bad ones can sometimes be turned into good with a little guidance and help. And remember that kicking someone from the squad can sometimes wake them up to what they were doing wrong. But in the end, some are beyond help.

And always try to have fun!

Bc2ID · 03-04-2008, 06:37 AM

I suggest you make a squad named learning or something to that effect. When people join just let them know that you are learning to SL and any advice they could give would be welcome. If you are not on TS, I suggest you do that before the next time you play. This way between rounds you can ask some of your fellow TG'ers to assist you.

SL'ing can be rewarding but also very frustrating. I would suggest that you stick with it and realize that some people have an inherent need to blab over the mic. Just ask them kindly to stop and remind them that you are still learning.

If the annoyances become such a bother then you can politely ask them to stop their behavior or you will have to remove them from the squad.

Just a reminder that the commander and all SL's must be able to communicate or they cannot hold that position. If this happens again please contact an Admin, especially for the Commander who was incommunicado.

Overall I think you handled it correctly. If you become frustrated with the game it is always best to take a break and try again later. It shows that you have patience, which will go a long way when you are Squad Leading.

B

GunnerySergeant · 03-04-2008, 09:08 AM

What you have run into is the Reality of PR and unfortunatelly more often than not squad leading can end up being as you expierienced a let down unless you belong to an inhouse squad.

It may helpful to become a supporting member so that you can join us on password nights where the more likelyhood of serious PR minded players show up.

It helps to write down as you play those players who obey instructions and make note of them and ask them to join when you see them online again along with making note of the Rambos and Lone Wolf's.

It has helped me too before the map starts to say anyone who does not intend to folow my orders to Please join another squad. Of coures do this in a submissive humble way. This at least implies that there staying means they agree to obey. But now since I've been playing awhile I know more who is who and don't usually have to mention this because they know my personality and join or dont join my squad because of it.

Also , I have learned from being a member under a good Squad Leader like Boston Bob he is gifted as a squad leader and is able to get most anyone to follow his orders whereas I have to at times beg coddle grovel and kick ..

If you ever get the chance to be in his squad do it and listen to how he commands he usually names his squad 1st Squad he does kick at times so if his squad is full maybe text him to allow you into his squad in the event he acquires an open slot at some point .... promising in the text to obey orders.

But isn't it fantastic when a squad works together and obeys the SL's sensible orders. It helps also to not be constantly blabbering like I do at times or sending them all over the map oh how they hate to manuver and flank...

There are a bunch of good squad members just write there names down I haven't but I can remember one or two. Donrhos, Seanight or something like that Marine Seaknight I think .. thebonecollector I can't recollect many but there are many. Wickens is a jewel you get the accent the obedience and the humor - same with Boston Bob

Oh one last thing respectfully demand they follow a couple of orders all the time like when its time to get a rally down move to me and whatever other two things you think are vital...

**Ferris Bueller** · 03-04-2008, 11:02 AM

Heres another post of mine with some tips:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

Ferris's Top 10 SL Tips:
1. Read the manual cover to cover. Get familiar with the interface and your controls. You had said it took you 3 mins to figure out how to set a RP, and this is why this tip comes first.

2. PRACTICE. Create a local server, load up any map on Training mode (you have to download the training mode files from the PR forum, which can be found here. at the top of the map screen when you're creating a server, theres a dropdown box. The default mode is AAS, change it to training and select a map from the list.), grab an officer kit and play around with it.

3. Before doing much in the SL world, play as a squad member for a good while. You'll learn the difference between a good SL and a bad one. Your golden ticket is to emulate the good ones in the way you do things.

4. Think strategically. This is the downfall of many squad leaders. If you're on defense, think about how you would attack and deploy your guys to intercept those angles. If you're attacking, think about how you would be defending and go in a different way. Most of the attack and defense routes are very common, try something unusual for a bit of fun and maybe upping your probability of success.

5. Be goal oriented. Set yourself a goal for the squad and shoot for that and nothing else. If your goal is to attack a flag, keep going for it until you cap it or cant attack it anymore. Same with defense.

6. Patience is king as squad leader. There are times you're going to be on defense and wont see an enemy for 20 minutes at a time. Be patient. Getting ancy and off your game is going to guarantee you're not going to get the job done.

7. You're in charge, so be in charge. Theres a lot of people who love to backseat squad lead. Dont let them. If you assign someone to do something and they tell you theyre going to do something else, tell them to stick it and follow orders. Suggestions are nice, but you dont always have to take them. It's your squad, lead it as you see fit.

8. Communicate. Always make sure that you know where your guys are and what theyre doing. Keep tabs on enemy locations. Make sure your guys know where to spawn. Tell them they're doing a good job, even if you guys are getting slapped around. Make sure you have clear orders issued and everyone understands them.

9. Have a degree of confidence. People are going to bail on a SL who freely admits that he doesnt know what hes doing. Always act like you've been doing this your whole life.

10. Learn who the veteran players are (not just SL's) and ask advice in-game. A great way to do this is to be on teamspeak and in the appropriate team coordination channel. If you're not sure which is which, join one of them and ask "is this the US/MEC/Chinese/Brit/Insurgent/Militia side?" Someone will be glad to answer you to make sure you're in the right channel.

Also, as far as what to do with bad squaddies: kick them. If they're being detremental to the squad, inform them that you're in charge and if they dont like your battleplan, they can leave. If they keep hammering at you, kick them (bring up the squad menu, click "manage squad", click the checkbox by their name and then click "apply").

For bad commander orders, you did the right thing. You questioned the bad order and got no viable response, so ignoring it is well justified.

TerribleOne · 03-04-2008, 11:45 AM

Take the initiative.

**w.WAREHOUSE** · 03-04-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redd_Wiggler

so my question is this: how do you deal with insubordinate squad mates with out coming off like a jerk?

Give them a piece of your mind and kick them. As soon as you learn that 75% of the players that play BF2 are unskilled, undisciplined, and stuck in a Vanilla-BF2 mindsets, the sooner you will learn to kick them out until good players start to join your squad on a regular basis. Confucius says: Would rather be considered jerk and good squad leader, than nice guy run sucky squad.

The other approach, that might be a little more civil, might be: Be nice and perform well day in and day out, earning the respect of regular players that will want to come back and join your squad. I believe that is how Disposable has evolved into the fastest-squad-to-ever-fill-up status.

Best advice for you really is to join a good map like Qwai and see how some of the regular squad leaders place rally points, watch the angles they use to assault flags, what kits they assign, and how they react to enemy contact. If you can't join their squad, you can die and use the "C" button to cycle between players, or you can watch them on battle recorder after the game is over.

**dave m** · 03-04-2008, 03:32 PM

As far as good team play goes alot may depend on time of day or night your playing.Some of the Europeon players have stated the play improves once the U.S. players start to populate the server.Of course if you can only play during morning ,early afternoon U.S. time look through the forums for Europeon posters and write their names down and look for them in game to squad up with especially those with E 1st TG tags the Europeon based in house squad.

Redd_Wiggler · 03-04-2008, 03:57 PM

thanx for all the help guys....as for the suggested guys to squad up with: its funny...i had one of my best games with Wickens. he was SL but got disconnected, and i became leader....when he came back to the server, he joined our squad again, and we had a great (if not difficult) time getting into processing plant just as the round ended. one of the best times SLing for me so far (its still only been a few times).

Soupy_Norman · 03-05-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redd_Wiggler

So, recently i was in an AMAZING squad. everyone was following the SL's orders...who was working with a great commander, and we were controlling the west side of fools road. then the SL got disconnected, and *bam* i was SL. i asked if anyone else wanted it, and they all said they would take it, but i should give it a go. so i did. they were all very supportiuve to my first time...they followed my commands, gave helpful suggestions and were one of the finest squads i ever worked with. ( i would name names, if only i could remember any of them...sorry gents). Needless to say, this gave me great confidence in my leading abilities.

so here is where the problem is: yesterday i came on when all the squads were full...so with my new-found confidence, i started a squad. it quickly filled. BUT every order (it seemed) was second guessed, argued over, complained about...and so on. i got so frustrated, i dis-connected. when i came back about an hour later, it was almost the same thing...but with different people. i dont want it to seem like everything was bad...i did manage to have a map with a great squad in there at one point. (thanx guys...wish i could remember names)...tho the commander had obvioulsy NOT read the manual (kept asking questions that would have been answered if he had) AND sent us ALL the way across the map to assault an eastern target while we were in the middle of an assault on a western target.

so my question is this: how do you deal with insubordinate squad mates with out coming off like a jerk? and how do you deal with a commander who gives, what you think are bad orders? for the record...i asked the commander (who was NOT using a mic by the way) if he REALLY wanted us to break off our assault in the west to assault the east , to which his reply was to repeat the "assault here" command...so trying to be a good SL, we pulled back and re-deployed. by the time we got there, the eastern target had been secured by a squad in jeeps...and we were left running after them and missed the final assault on the remaining target. but thats another story.

Hey that wasnt me as SL on the brit side was it? I got disconnected after an EXTREMELY intense, bloody and sacrificial 1 hour frenzy taking hilltop estate (from the west). Our squad was called "AMPHIBIOUS"?

I joined back in game and got auto bumped to militia who were about to lose their home base as i got in. I never managed to take estate before as Brit on that map. I was literally cracking out the bubbly when i got CTD. Bastarding PR !! Why do you taunt me so!?!?

**Portable.Cougar** · 03-05-2008, 01:19 AM

Just do it

Fail a whole lot

Learn everytime

Become Great

Redd_Wiggler · 03-05-2008, 05:17 AM

it might have been your squad soupy...i really cant remember

we took train, then when reinforcements arrived, we moved to warehouse...

*edited for spelling

**A.WICKENS** · 03-05-2008, 10:45 AM

Redd I remember the game well, I thought you did extremely well and had no idea that you were new to the SL thing. It didn't come across like that during the game and that was a tough round, we were getting pounded. I was having a tough time on that map, so apologies if I was bad tempered lol, and you went from a good squad member to a good squad leader smoothly.

As I think others have said sometimes the key is to have a little faith in yourself. Try to be assured and confident in your decision making, even if you are not doing the best possible thing in a situation sometimes you can get away with it through conviction and sheer bloody mindedness. The worst games I've had as SL (so many to choose from and so little time) usually start when I start dithering and lose momentum, the best when I stick with my instincts and plough on towards that flag.

Keep at it mate, the SL thing can be a thank less task sometimes but also the most rewarding when it works well. Don't be afraid to give your guys specific instructions that you expect them to adhere to. Most squad members seem to enjoy the structure of a lean, cohesive squad. It adds to the authenticity and immersion, well it does for me.
I enjoy SL'ing on some maps and on others I am happy to follow orders. If you're looking for tips join the squads of some of the people mentioned in this thread, Warehouse, Boston Bob, Blk Opps nerds, Dirtboy, Wood702, M.Warren, Skud, Gunny, these are all SL's you can learn from. There's lots of others so apologies to all the great Sl's I haven't mentioned.

Just keep doing it, the day you stop learning is the day you stop playing.

**browna3** · 03-05-2008, 12:02 PM

i find some of the best games are when you and your squad work really well together for example
me,olliefool,vlexo and nerdydodge id say were the best squad in all the maps we played.
however when you get a-hole sm/sl/co it can be boring. anyway keep practicing as sl 1 thing i found is that im not very vocal so try an chat alot make em feel welcome"!

**NerdyDodge** · 03-05-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browna3

i find some of the best games are when you and your squad work really well together for example
me,olliefool,vlexo and nerdydodge id say were the best squad in all the maps we played.
however when you get a-hole sm/sl/co it can be boring. anyway keep practicing as sl 1 thing i found is that im not very vocal so try an chat alot make em feel welcome"!

Awww thanks Browna! Your place in 2NOOBY is secure!

Anyway, the main tip I can give is just to keep everyone together, even if certain SM's start asking to head off on their own tasks such as rally-hunting. There is nothing as powerful as a concerted and organised six man squad hitting a position all at the same time.

EDIT: You forgot Ecko!

03-04-2008, 05:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
Redd_Wiggler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: right behind you Age: 40 Posts: 167	New SL...need some advice. So, recently i was in an AMAZING squad. everyone was following the SL's orders...who was working with a great commander, and we were controlling the west side of fools road. then the SL got disconnected, and bam i was SL. i asked if anyone else wanted it, and they all said they would take it, but i should give it a go. so i did. they were all very supportiuve to my first time...they followed my commands, gave helpful suggestions and were one of the finest squads i ever worked with. ( i would name names, if only i could remember any of them...sorry gents). Needless to say, this gave me great confidence in my leading abilities. so here is where the problem is: yesterday i came on when all the squads were full...so with my new-found confidence, i started a squad. it quickly filled. BUT every order (it seemed) was second guessed, argued over, complained about...and so on. i got so frustrated, i dis-connected. when i came back about an hour later, it was almost the same thing...but with different people. i dont want it to seem like everything was bad...i did manage to have a map with a great squad in there at one point. (thanx guys...wish i could remember names)...tho the commander had obvioulsy NOT read the manual (kept asking questions that would have been answered if he had) AND sent us ALL the way across the map to assault an eastern target while we were in the middle of an assault on a western target. so my question is this: how do you deal with insubordinate squad mates with out coming off like a jerk? and how do you deal with a commander who gives, what you think are bad orders? for the record...i asked the commander (who was NOT using a mic by the way) if he REALLY wanted us to break off our assault in the west to assault the east , to which his reply was to repeat the "assault here" command...so trying to be a good SL, we pulled back and re-deployed. by the time we got there, the eastern target had been secured by a squad in jeeps...and we were left running after them and missed the final assault on the remaining target. but thats another story.

03-04-2008, 06:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Superfast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Awesomeland Age: 32 Posts: 2,121	Re: New SL...need some advice. If those in your squad repeatedly won't follow orders, kick them. This makes room for players that will. If they second-guess you, try reasoning with them whatever the problem is and in the end explain to them that they can leave the squad if they won't listen to you. If all fails, kick them. If you feel the CO is making a bad call, tell him why. If he repeatedly makes bad calls and isn't answering you, ignore the orders and contact an admin, they will remove the CO. There are different players, some good and some bad. Good ones are those you end up trying to squad up with, like you described first where you had a great round together. The bad ones can sometimes be turned into good with a little guidance and help. And remember that kicking someone from the squad can sometimes wake them up to what they were doing wrong. But in the end, some are beyond help. And always try to have fun! __________________ TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division - having fun on the battlefield, the "TG way" xfire: superfastkill steam: Superfast <=Awesomeness ribbon

03-04-2008, 06:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bc2ID Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In the shed fixing my lawnmower! Posts: 1,879	Re: New SL...need some advice. I suggest you make a squad named learning or something to that effect. When people join just let them know that you are learning to SL and any advice they could give would be welcome. If you are not on TS, I suggest you do that before the next time you play. This way between rounds you can ask some of your fellow TG'ers to assist you. SL'ing can be rewarding but also very frustrating. I would suggest that you stick with it and realize that some people have an inherent need to blab over the mic. Just ask them kindly to stop and remind them that you are still learning. If the annoyances become such a bother then you can politely ask them to stop their behavior or you will have to remove them from the squad. Just a reminder that the commander and all SL's must be able to communicate or they cannot hold that position. If this happens again please contact an Admin, especially for the Commander who was incommunicado. Overall I think you handled it correctly. If you become frustrated with the game it is always best to take a break and try again later. It shows that you have patience, which will go a long way when you are Squad Leading. B __________________ "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton

03-04-2008, 09:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
GunnerySergeant Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19	Re: New SL...need some advice. What you have run into is the Reality of PR and unfortunatelly more often than not squad leading can end up being as you expierienced a let down unless you belong to an inhouse squad. It may helpful to become a supporting member so that you can join us on password nights where the more likelyhood of serious PR minded players show up. It helps to write down as you play those players who obey instructions and make note of them and ask them to join when you see them online again along with making note of the Rambos and Lone Wolf's. It has helped me too before the map starts to say anyone who does not intend to folow my orders to Please join another squad. Of coures do this in a submissive humble way. This at least implies that there staying means they agree to obey. But now since I've been playing awhile I know more who is who and don't usually have to mention this because they know my personality and join or dont join my squad because of it. Also , I have learned from being a member under a good Squad Leader like Boston Bob he is gifted as a squad leader and is able to get most anyone to follow his orders whereas I have to at times beg coddle grovel and kick .. If you ever get the chance to be in his squad do it and listen to how he commands he usually names his squad 1st Squad he does kick at times so if his squad is full maybe text him to allow you into his squad in the event he acquires an open slot at some point .... promising in the text to obey orders. But isn't it fantastic when a squad works together and obeys the SL's sensible orders. It helps also to not be constantly blabbering like I do at times or sending them all over the map oh how they hate to manuver and flank... There are a bunch of good squad members just write there names down I haven't but I can remember one or two. Donrhos, Seanight or something like that Marine Seaknight I think .. thebonecollector I can't recollect many but there are many. Wickens is a jewel you get the accent the obedience and the humor - same with Boston Bob Oh one last thing respectfully demand they follow a couple of orders all the time like when its time to get a rally down move to me and whatever other two things you think are vital...

03-04-2008, 11:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
TerribleOne Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 40	Re: New SL...need some advice. Take the initiative.

03-04-2008, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
dave m Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: illinois Age: 48 Posts: 133	Re: New SL...need some advice. As far as good team play goes alot may depend on time of day or night your playing.Some of the Europeon players have stated the play improves once the U.S. players start to populate the server.Of course if you can only play during morning ,early afternoon U.S. time look through the forums for Europeon posters and write their names down and look for them in game to squad up with especially those with E 1st TG tags the Europeon based in house squad.

03-04-2008, 03:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
Redd_Wiggler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: right behind you Age: 40 Posts: 167	Re: New SL...need some advice. thanx for all the help guys....as for the suggested guys to squad up with: its funny...i had one of my best games with Wickens. he was SL but got disconnected, and i became leader....when he came back to the server, he joined our squad again, and we had a great (if not difficult) time getting into processing plant just as the round ended. one of the best times SLing for me so far (its still only been a few times).

03-05-2008, 01:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
Portable.Cougar Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So. California Posts: 484	Re: New SL...need some advice. Just do it Fail a whole lot Learn everytime Become Great __________________ \|TG-X\| Portable.Cougar "Hi, My name is Cougar and I waste tax dollars Shooting Infi with HAT" 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP \| Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST! Contact an Admin \| Nominate your teammates for a ribbon

03-05-2008, 05:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Redd_Wiggler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: right behind you Age: 40 Posts: 167	Re: New SL...need some advice. it might have been your squad soupy...i really cant remember we took train, then when reinforcements arrived, we moved to warehouse... *edited for spelling

03-05-2008, 10:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
A.WICKENS Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South East coast of England Age: 35 Posts: 262	Re: New SL...need some advice. Redd I remember the game well, I thought you did extremely well and had no idea that you were new to the SL thing. It didn't come across like that during the game and that was a tough round, we were getting pounded. I was having a tough time on that map, so apologies if I was bad tempered lol, and you went from a good squad member to a good squad leader smoothly. As I think others have said sometimes the key is to have a little faith in yourself. Try to be assured and confident in your decision making, even if you are not doing the best possible thing in a situation sometimes you can get away with it through conviction and sheer bloody mindedness. The worst games I've had as SL (so many to choose from and so little time) usually start when I start dithering and lose momentum, the best when I stick with my instincts and plough on towards that flag. Keep at it mate, the SL thing can be a thank less task sometimes but also the most rewarding when it works well. Don't be afraid to give your guys specific instructions that you expect them to adhere to. Most squad members seem to enjoy the structure of a lean, cohesive squad. It adds to the authenticity and immersion, well it does for me. I enjoy SL'ing on some maps and on others I am happy to follow orders. If you're looking for tips join the squads of some of the people mentioned in this thread, Warehouse, Boston Bob, Blk Opps nerds, Dirtboy, Wood702, M.Warren, Skud, Gunny, these are all SL's you can learn from. There's lots of others so apologies to all the great Sl's I haven't mentioned. Just keep doing it, the day you stop learning is the day you stop playing. __________________ Someone once told the 6th to go to hell, so they did...and capped the Flag!

03-05-2008, 12:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
browna3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 233	Re: New SL...need some advice. i find some of the best games are when you and your squad work really well together for example me,olliefool,vlexo and nerdydodge id say were the best squad in all the maps we played. however when you get a-hole sm/sl/co it can be boring. anyway keep practicing as sl 1 thing i found is that im not very vocal so try an chat alot make em feel welcome"! __________________

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